I was trying to keep my post subtle so the mods wouldn’t delete it. I hadn’t counted on paying for college advice from Flagpole. You all really think women will be going to college in 5 to 10 years? Maybe there will be extended programs that you can drop in and out of between childbirths.
The way it should be. Get women out of the workforce and back into the kitchen raising kids. You know; how human civilization works for millions of years before wokeness screwed everything up.
The last ~70 years or so corresponded to the more improvement in human quality of life than the previous 5000 years combined. It also happened to be during a time of huge increases in women workforce participation %. Coincidence? Maybe....
If you suspect you might have very smart children (as I did...I mean, that's obvious), then it is NOT a good idea to start a 529 plan or do ANY saving for college.
The reason is that there are about 60 elite colleges in the United States that give OUTRAGEOUS financial aid based on need. Oh...you also can't make more than about $150,000 per year before the financial aid drops significantly. I know that everyone here makes a million dollars a year, but if you happen to have a more normal household income, this advice is for you.
All of the Ivies plus Stanford and many others will give your kid a full ride if you have household income under about $80,000. If you are at about $130,000, your kid will still get full tuition (that was at about $125,000 when my kids were going to college).
What kills that aid is if you have savings of any kind outside of retirement plans, so you need to have NOTHING in a savings account, checking account (beyond basic amounts to pay bills), etc. For people who like to save or have a big cushion of cash available, this is a tough thing to do, but for full benefit of those more elite colleges that do this, it is well worth it.
My oldest went to an elite college that gave her full tuition all 4 years based on our household income and no savings during that time (outside of retirement accounts). Leading up to her going to college, we had to get rid of some cash reserves. In the couple years before she went, we paid cash for some home improvements and bought a car with cash.
If you make much more than $150,000 per year household income, then a 529 plan might be for you.
This advice is pretty much spot on. The need based schools determine what you can pay and then they'll take all of your saving on top of it. So if you don't have savings, you pay less.
I am disgusted that you would provide that advice. Themajority of Americans are selfish and arebad with money. My math says that about 1 out of every 300 students end up being admitted to a highly selective college. And a large number of admitted students are not admitted entirely on merit but through athletics or legacy or some other method. So telling parents that it is wise not to save money for college is akin to telling people not to bother saving money for anything but instead buying a lottery ticket. Stating facts is one thing but you used the word advice.
If you suspect you might have very smart children (as I did...I mean, that's obvious), then it is NOT a good idea to start a 529 plan or do ANY saving for college.
The reason is that there are about 60 elite colleges in the United States that give OUTRAGEOUS financial aid based on need. Oh...you also can't make more than about $150,000 per year before the financial aid drops significantly. I know that everyone here makes a million dollars a year, but if you happen to have a more normal household income, this advice is for you.
All of the Ivies plus Stanford and many others will give your kid a full ride if you have household income under about $80,000. If you are at about $130,000, your kid will still get full tuition (that was at about $125,000 when my kids were going to college).
What kills that aid is if you have savings of any kind outside of retirement plans, so you need to have NOTHING in a savings account, checking account (beyond basic amounts to pay bills), etc. For people who like to save or have a big cushion of cash available, this is a tough thing to do, but for full benefit of those more elite colleges that do this, it is well worth it.
My oldest went to an elite college that gave her full tuition all 4 years based on our household income and no savings during that time (outside of retirement accounts). Leading up to her going to college, we had to get rid of some cash reserves. In the couple years before she went, we paid cash for some home improvements and bought a car with cash.
If you make much more than $150,000 per year household income, then a 529 plan might be for you.
Whatever man, I suppose you think this is smart and strategic, but I call it unethical if you could otherwise afford it. But many people play the game. Like my unmarried, yoga teacher neighbor who practically got her kid a full ride even though he went to a private high school and lives in a million dollar house with her and her sugar daddy because of how she files her taxes.
My advice for parents with very smart kids (particularly girls) who are not members of a protected class (so anything but white) or misgendered is to do what we did… get them applying to second tier but still very good private schools that are generous with merit money. But the grades and tests scores will have to be almost perfect (top 1-2%), along with co-curricular activities and leadership (sports, choir, theatre, special Ed, tutor, and lots of meaningful community service). Our daughter got lots of significant merit offers. No need to go Ivy and pay sticker at $330,000 over four years. Or even a “top 30” school at $300,000. That’s silly.
It is not unethical at all. Our income at the time my oldest went to that elite college was at the level that that the school offered what amounted to full tuition (so we ostensibly paid just room and board for her to go to college). We didn't HIDE any money. We spent it on things we needed. It is not my fault that they don't consider retirement accounts.
She could have gotten a full ride at a ton of "second tier" colleges based on her academic record, but she wanted to go to that elite college, and because we did our research ahead of time about how to afford it (it was over $70,000 per year at the time at full price), she was able to go there. It's not playing a game. It is doing things within the rules that are clearly laid out. Many elite colleges have endowments that are SO big that they would never need to charge tuition ever again if they didn't want to.
Whatever man, I suppose you think this is smart and strategic, but I call it unethical if you could otherwise afford it. But many people play the game. Like my unmarried, yoga teacher neighbor who practically got her kid a full ride even though he went to a private high school and lives in a million dollar house with her and her sugar daddy because of how she files her taxes.
My advice for parents with very smart kids (particularly girls) who are not members of a protected class (so anything but white) or misgendered is to do what we did… get them applying to second tier but still very good private schools that are generous with merit money. But the grades and tests scores will have to be almost perfect (top 1-2%), along with co-curricular activities and leadership (sports, choir, theatre, special Ed, tutor, and lots of meaningful community service). Our daughter got lots of significant merit offers. No need to go Ivy and pay sticker at $330,000 over four years. Or even a “top 30” school at $300,000. That’s silly.
This is great info. My daughter is exactly what your post refers to. She is going to be a junior in the fall. She scored 94 percentile on PSAT and has maybe a 3.9 unweighted. Do you think she will get merit aid at the schools you refer to? What are some examples of 2nd tier private schools in the west? She is interested in math / science. Would like to get her a degree as inexpensively as possible. She is doing Running Start so should graduate h.s. with a 2 year degree. She would like to run in college but her pr’s are: 1:06 400, 2:33 800. Thanks.
94th percentile is good but not great in terms of getting significant merit aid.
Some schools will give a certain amount of aid based on SAT or ACT test scores or if your kid is a National Merit Scholar. Unfortunately 3.9 unweighted is a dime a million. My daughter had a 4.0 unweighted and so was one of the valedictorians (yes, plural) of her class (her AP classes took that GPA up much higher, of course), and if I remember correctly, there were 17 of them with straight As all through high school. Multiply that by the number of high schools in any given state, and that's a LOT of kids.
Test scores are a better indication of what your daughter might get.
If you suspect you might have very smart children (as I did...I mean, that's obvious), then it is NOT a good idea to start a 529 plan or do ANY saving for college.
The reason is that there are about 60 elite colleges in the United States that give OUTRAGEOUS financial aid based on need. Oh...you also can't make more than about $150,000 per year before the financial aid drops significantly. I know that everyone here makes a million dollars a year, but if you happen to have a more normal household income, this advice is for you.
All of the Ivies plus Stanford and many others will give your kid a full ride if you have household income under about $80,000. If you are at about $130,000, your kid will still get full tuition (that was at about $125,000 when my kids were going to college).
What kills that aid is if you have savings of any kind outside of retirement plans, so you need to have NOTHING in a savings account, checking account (beyond basic amounts to pay bills), etc. For people who like to save or have a big cushion of cash available, this is a tough thing to do, but for full benefit of those more elite colleges that do this, it is well worth it.
My oldest went to an elite college that gave her full tuition all 4 years based on our household income and no savings during that time (outside of retirement accounts). Leading up to her going to college, we had to get rid of some cash reserves. In the couple years before she went, we paid cash for some home improvements and bought a car with cash.
If you make much more than $150,000 per year household income, then a 529 plan might be for you.
This advice is pretty much spot on. The need based schools determine what you can pay and then they'll take all of your saving on top of it. So if you don't have savings, you pay less.
I appreciate the confirmation, but I will add that of course the advice was spot on. I don't talk out of my ass.
You obviously are not good at accumulating wealth. A couple earning $200k should be able to max out 401k accounts and drop an additional $20k into the market in addition to making their house payments and living a nice life. They will have $1M outside of retirement accounts at college tome by doing that and they will pay full price at an Ivy. Instead, you somehow managed to save nothing but you return here to provide financial advice.
I am disgusted that you would provide that advice. Themajority of Americans are selfish and arebad with money. My math says that about 1 out of every 300 students end up being admitted to a highly selective college. And a large number of admitted students are not admitted entirely on merit but through athletics or legacy or some other method. So telling parents that it is wise not to save money for college is akin to telling people not to bother saving money for anything but instead buying a lottery ticket. Stating facts is one thing but you used the word advice.
The advice is for people who have very smart children. Both of my kids were identified as gifted early on in Elementary School. I knew then that either they would LIKELY get very good merit aid from a state school or they would be able to get need-based aid when admitted to an elite college. So, instead of saving for their college, we invested in our own retirement.
If you are a doctor and make $250,000 per year or more, then you might want to start a 529 plan if you have an average student as your child, but you might just be able to pay for college out of your pocket at the time time too. If you are really poor, you might not have extra money to put into a 529 plan. Non-elite colleges will give SOME money based on need also, just not as good as the elite ones. Not everyone gets to go to an elite or expensive college. There are state schools that are affordable. You can do the first 2 years at Community College for CHEAP and then transfer to a 4-year university.
529 plans SOUND like a good idea, because what responsible parent doesn't want to save for their kid's college? It's just not a good idea for a lot of people though.
The way it should be. Get women out of the workforce and back into the kitchen raising kids. You know; how human civilization works for millions of years before wokeness screwed everything up.
The last ~70 years or so corresponded to the more improvement in human quality of life than the previous 5000 years combined. It also happened to be during a time of huge increases in women workforce participation %. Coincidence? Maybe....
We'll have to agree to disagree on the last 70 years being best in terms of human quality of life.
Increasing climate change, tremendous amounts of plastics pollution, massive reliance on a just-in-time supply chain to preserve corporate profits that is obviously dysfunctional (with a side bonus that people forgot how to feed/take care of themselves), abject poverty and hunger crises in half of the world.
But yeah I guess that was all worth it because Sheryl Sandberg broke the glass ceiling at Facebook and you have the latest iPhone. Those seem like good trade-offs.
Based on your wording, I’m assuming you are planning to help your daughter out if she should become unexpectedly knocked up. Si? No?
I was trying to keep my post subtle so the mods wouldn’t delete it. I hadn’t counted on paying for college advice from Flagpole. You all really think women will be going to college in 5 to 10 years? Maybe there will be extended programs that you can drop in and out of between childbirths.
Your daughter must be very popular with the boys ;).
You obviously are not good at accumulating wealth. A couple earning $200k should be able to max out 401k accounts and drop an additional $20k into the market in addition to making their house payments and living a nice life. They will have $1M outside of retirement accounts at college tome by doing that and they will pay full price at an Ivy. Instead, you somehow managed to save nothing but you return here to provide financial advice.
Well, you don't know what you're talking about. First of all, my wife and I have never made $200,000 per year (about $150,000 at the most). Second of all, I just retired at age 55 because I have enough to do so. My wife is a college professor and wants to continue to profess for 5 more years (she did take 15 years off as a stay-at-home mom though, so that's what that's about).
Why would you knowingly accumulate cash to pay full price for an Ivy League University when you don't have to? We HAD a big pile of cash (in addition to our retirement savings) a couple years prior to our oldest going to college, but we spent it on home improvements, a new car that we needed, a couple of nice vacations and some other things so that we had little liquid cash when it was time for her to go to college (because it was clear she would be accepted to an elite college, and she did get into the college of her choice).
Max out 401k accounts? We invested HALF our income the first 7 years of our marriage. You are dead wrong on this, brother.
Flagpole is right on. My 1st dd had full rides to almost all schools. She was recruited by the Ivies and after research we found it was basically free as well. They also limit the hrs of training and focus is on academics 1st and last, so it's a great choice if your child is in the top 1% academically and has some other top tier talent that really separates them from rest of the rif raf
Flagpole is right on. My 1st dd had full rides to almost all schools. She was recruited by the Ivies and after research we found it was basically free as well. They also limit the hrs of training and focus is on academics 1st and last, so it's a great choice if your child is in the top 1% academically and has some other top tier talent that really separates them from rest of the rif raf
Oddly enough, my son (still a great student with great test scores, but not the straight A student my daughter was) was "recruited" as a distance runner (as in sent recruitment letters) by several Ivy League colleges. He was a state champion and All American in high school, so he had a lot of offers from everyone and their brother. He opted NOT to go to an Ivy League school even though he certainly could have.
I always enjoy this discussion with Flagpole, the guy who was unable to save any money. I have 3 children, all who were National Merit Finalists. One is out of college and two are currently enrolled. All were state champions and borderline national class track runners. All three chose free educations at average schools rather than full price highly selective colleges. We intend to give the college savings to them. So they will end up with $300k in cash to start life rather than start life with a better looking diploma. My wife and I never earned more than $210k but we accumuated $2.5M in 401k accounts, paid our house off, and had another $900k of assets that the Ivies considered in their calculation. We didn't do anything crazy during our 28 year marriage but we woke up one day with a net worth of $4M. We have started to transfer money to our oldest child and will likely make a house downpayment for her soon. The other 2 both have $30k cars at school and their freinds think they are wealthy. I suspect that many of their struggling freinds have parents who earn more than us.
One bit of advice that a neighbor took from a Princeton advisor was to purchase a more expensive house to hide his net worth. His $350k house was paid off. He sold it and paid cash for a house of $1.2M and his daughter is now attending Princeton for $25k per year.
Sounds right. We maxed out 401k accounts. My house is owned. It is fully updated. We own new cars. We have a ton of money. You had no savings after doing your home and car stuff.
And why are your salaries so low? A college professor wife and you work and your combined income is only $150k? I looked up the salaries of some of my son's professors and several earn almost $200k. The lowest one earns $97k and looks to be about 28 years old.