Don't confuse using sound logic with anger. I'm glad you concede that you are a Nike shill.
I hope you sleep well at night knowing the money you get from Nike comes from slave labor in China.
You do realize that Garmin has multiple manufacturing facilities in China, right?
You do realize he was talking about literal force labor, not cheap labor like most of the world tries to use.
Nike was among the companies lobbying against a bill that would ban goods imported from China’s Xinjiang region that are made with forced labor. The Washington Post reported in 2020 that China was forcing Uyghurs to work in a shoe factory that served as a supplier for Nike for more than 30 years.
Nike is among the many companies that have pulled out of Russia after its assault on Ukraine. But the sports apparel giant has not taken similar steps in China. In fact, Nike has tried to strengthen its ties to China’s genoci...
It is their course. Do you want them to dismantle a course that they spent millions to develop?
If they spent millions to develop a ridiculously flat, fast course, they are not cross-country fans, they are opportunists who play up the egotistical side of the sport, not the hard working and competitive side of the sport. That is a change for the worse. They are not doing it for sport, they are doing it for show.
Cross country has hills and challenges, whatever they are going for is not cross country.
Honest question have you been to see the Huntsville course? I've seen it twice now and while it isn't hilly it definitely isn't a downhill race track as some might try to claim.
Lastly, have you polled the kids what they like? Or is it not about them? I'll hang up and listen.
If they spent millions to develop a ridiculously flat, fast course, they are not cross-country fans, they are opportunists who play up the egotistical side of the sport, not the hard working and competitive side of the sport. That is a change for the worse. They are not doing it for sport, they are doing it for show.
Cross country has hills and challenges, whatever they are going for is not cross country.
Honest question have you been to see the Huntsville course? I've seen it twice now and while it isn't hilly it definitely isn't a downhill race track as some might try to claim.
Lastly, have you polled the kids what they like? Or is it not about them? I'll hang up and listen.
The Huntsville course is the perfect course for a national championship. Honestly wish we had pros running there for the usatf xc meets as well
“Is RunningLane dead?” Really shows the trolls on letsrun.com. No race is going to become irrelevant because other national race opened up. Just look at Nike Outdoor Nationals and New Balence Outdoor Nationals.
And you sound angry that Nike is back in play this fall.
it stinks that nike dipped out last year, seemingly for no good reason. but tough to beat them flying people out for free. i get that the regionals can be expensive, depending on where you live. I think for most people, its a 5 hour drive or less, and a night in a hotel room. idk. everybody will have to weigh their own cost/benefit.
high school xc coach,
I hope this is not construed as a personal attack on you. I certainly don't mean it that way.
Nike does kind of, sort of fly people out for free, but the money they rake in from the regional meets (which is substantial) essentially pays for that. In principle, I have nothing against Nike doing that, but it goes a long way toward explaining why the cost of the regional meets has been steadily climbing. Nike isn't funding the whole thing out of the goodness of their heart. :-)
That said, Nike's ace in the hole is the fact that they do pay to bring teams out there for the event. But, the overwhelming majority of teams that get that payment have already laid out a substantial chunk of change to get to the regional meet.
Also, I'm not sure where you get the idea that the Nike regional is a 5-hour drive or less for most teams. It might be in New York and New England, but the only teams within a 5-hour drive of Houston are teams in SE Texas. The only teams within a 5-hour drive of Phoenix are Arizona teams and Las Vegas teams (not the cream of the crop of SW region teams). The only teams within a 5-hour drive of Boise are, well, not very much of the NW region at all. Lots of Heartland teams have to drive way more than five hours, or fly. Either way, it's a fair chunk of change and effort for the Minnesota teams that have been dominating of late.
So, yes, it becomes very pricey to attend a Nike regional for teams west of the Mississippi, plus a fair number of teams east of it.
Given that expense, it's really not much--if any--more expensive for most teams to fly to Huntsville and race there.
it stinks that nike dipped out last year, seemingly for no good reason. but tough to beat them flying people out for free. i get that the regionals can be expensive, depending on where you live. I think for most people, its a 5 hour drive or less, and a night in a hotel room. idk. everybody will have to weigh their own cost/benefit.
high school xc coach,
I hope this is not construed as a personal attack on you. I certainly don't mean it that way.
Nike does kind of, sort of fly people out for free, but the money they rake in from the regional meets (which is substantial) essentially pays for that. In principle, I have nothing against Nike doing that, but it goes a long way toward explaining why the cost of the regional meets has been steadily climbing. Nike isn't funding the whole thing out of the goodness of their heart. :-)
That said, Nike's ace in the hole is the fact that they do pay to bring teams out there for the event. But, the overwhelming majority of teams that get that payment have already laid out a substantial chunk of change to get to the regional meet.
Also, I'm not sure where you get the idea that the Nike regional is a 5-hour drive or less for most teams. It might be in New York and New England, but the only teams within a 5-hour drive of Houston are teams in SE Texas. The only teams within a 5-hour drive of Phoenix are Arizona teams and Las Vegas teams (not the cream of the crop of SW region teams). The only teams within a 5-hour drive of Boise are, well, not very much of the NW region at all. Lots of Heartland teams have to drive way more than five hours, or fly. Either way, it's a fair chunk of change and effort for the Minnesota teams that have been dominating of late.
So, yes, it becomes very pricey to attend a Nike regional for teams west of the Mississippi, plus a fair number of teams east of it.
Given that expense, it's really not much--if any--more expensive for most teams to fly to Huntsville and race there.
Sorry, I’m not buying that travel from Seattle or Portland to Boise is anywhere close in cost or logistics to travel to Alabama.
I do get that some of them are probably sick of traveling to a tough-ish course in Boise when they think it should be in their backyard in larger population centers with sleet and mud every other year.
Runninglane should move to a early/mid season race and make an effort to invite talent. Not everyone would come, but the fast times and competition would definitely attract some.
This. RunningLane, if you’re reading this, you should try and make the best regular season meet of champions since Great American circa mid-2000s. Heck, maybe even partner with NSAF to being Great American to the course in Huntsville. Great American used to be THE MEET in early October - they would routinely get the best teams from out west to travel cross country to race folks from the east. Anyone who has been to the meet in the last 5 years or so knows it’s dropped off significantly. Time to move on from the course in Cary, get new management involved and to Make Great American Great Again
NXN announced for the same date as Runninglane. Does that mean the end of relevance for Runninglane XC? Who would go to Runninglane over NXN and why?
Newbury Park's coach said that RunningLane was such a fun experience for his team, that even if NXN came back this fall they still might go to RunningLane instead.
And there will be other top teams that go to RunningLane just so that they can run a faster time than they can run at NXN.
That is fuqing stupid, tracks are for fast times, not cross country courses.
Iam on the Heartland region. The course is stupid. It is very narrow and is roped off with 90 degree turns using metal stakes that are waist high. Somebody is going to get impaled.
I checked flights from KC to Sioux Falls and Huntsville and they are the same cost. One meet is a regional on a terrible course with limited parking and typically terrible weather. The other is a national meet with plenty of parking and a great course with warm weather. Easy decision.
The NXR Southwest course was a dusty trash heap...
I vividly remember watching Lauren Ping choking & gasping from the thick dust cloud being kicked up by the golf cart just ahead of her. Here she was, the front runner (and eventual winner) in the girl's race, and at the finish she was caked in a layer of dust...
Why did they move the NXR Southwest course? It seems like they used to have a really good setup.
Sorry, I’m not buying that travel from Seattle or Portland to Boise is anywhere close in cost or logistics to travel to Alabama.
I do get that some of them are probably sick of traveling to a tough-ish course in Boise when they think it should be in their backyard in larger population centers with sleet and mud every other year.
It's undoubtedly more expensive to fly to Huntsville than Boise from Seattle/Portland, though as you go east from Seattle/Portland, that airfare difference between regional location and Huntsville becomes less. Either way, airfare is only the beginning of the cost of travel to a regional. There's also your meet entry, which is less for Huntsville than the Nike regionals, though I don't pretend that will balance out the difference in airfare very often. More importantly, there's hotel, rental cars, and meals. Those costs are going to average out nearly the same in most cases. Those costs will also, almost always, exceed the cost of airfare. Cities like Houston and Phoenix are relatively easy, and usually less inexpensive, to fly into. Cities like Boise, Sioux Falls, Cary, and Terre Haute not so much so. FWIW, taxes on rental cars are insanely high in Phoenix (I've heard that's to help pay off the stadium for the Arizona Cardinals).
All told, it's not a wild reach to say travel isn't much more expensive to Huntsville than to your Nike regional. And, in some cases, it will be less expensive. Not many, but some.
By the way, brace yourself for what airfares and rental cars could cost this fall, no matter where you fly. Unless you live real close to the host city for the regional, the cost will be substantial.
How many people avoided going to the national t&f championships last week simply because of the cost of travel?
maybe this will force Nike to go to better locations. I don't know. it would make sense for the courses to be in the middle of each region. at a decent course. or they will roll over and say screw it if it is too difficult for them.
Honest question have you been to see the Huntsville course? I've seen it twice now and while it isn't hilly it definitely isn't a downhill race track as some might try to claim.
Lastly, have you polled the kids what they like? Or is it not about them? I'll hang up and listen.
Yes, this is about the kids. Do we want to tell them that the way to be a great XC runner is to choose easy courses and brag about your "fast" times, even though everyone else on the course also ran a PR by 20 seconds? I think we should tell them that their value as a runner comes from competing in less than perfect conditions and overcoming the challenges of a hard course.
if you are worried about airfare and car rentals, drive the 8 hours. honestly, 7/8 hours is around my cutoff where I have to make a hard decision on flying or driving. with costs going way up, driving will win out more and more.
Honest question have you been to see the Huntsville course? I've seen it twice now and while it isn't hilly it definitely isn't a downhill race track as some might try to claim.
Lastly, have you polled the kids what they like? Or is it not about them? I'll hang up and listen.
Yes, this is about the kids. Do we want to tell them that the way to be a great XC runner is to choose easy courses and brag about your "fast" times, even though everyone else on the course also ran a PR by 20 seconds? I think we should tell them that their value as a runner comes from competing in less than perfect conditions and overcoming the challenges of a hard course.
im not sure kids care about the idea of being a "great cross country runner" most pros don't run it at all anymore, or maybe 1 to 2 races. If you are not competitive enough to actually win or place top 10, i can see the draw in wanting to go to a course that will end your season with a PR. a huge draw to running is the simplicity of seeing how fast you can go.
cross country is a great sport, no doubt. but the 3 or 4 month season of weekly meets can get tiring without a carrot to chase.
The Huntsville course is the perfect course for a national championship. Honestly wish we had pros running there for the usatf xc meets as well
Why do you think it is the perfect course? You have no point unless you back it up with reasons. The USATF would laugh at using that course for XC, they want real courses.
im not sure kids care about the idea of being a "great cross country runner" most pros don't run it at all anymore, or maybe 1 to 2 races. If you are not competitive enough to actually win or place top 10, i can see the draw in wanting to go to a course that will end your season with a PR. a huge draw to running is the simplicity of seeing how fast you can go.
cross country is a great sport, no doubt. but the 3 or 4 month season of weekly meets can get tiring without a carrot to chase.
Yes, I can see that point of view, but why should XC cater to track runners? If track runners don't like it, they can go run on a track. Make XC its own sport, different than track, don't try to make it more like track.
Honest question have you been to see the Huntsville course? I've seen it twice now and while it isn't hilly it definitely isn't a downhill race track as some might try to claim.
Lastly, have you polled the kids what they like? Or is it not about them? I'll hang up and listen.
Yes, this is about the kids. Do we want to tell them that the way to be a great XC runner is to choose easy courses and brag about your "fast" times, even though everyone else on the course also ran a PR by 20 seconds? I think we should tell them that their value as a runner comes from competing in less than perfect conditions and overcoming the challenges of a hard course.
Or you could maybe ask them what kind of course they enjoy and take them to that event accordingly.
