Question about a spider bite...

was it Paris Hilton?

Just make sure to watch the area where the bite occured closely. Look for any discoloration, swelling, oozing, or anything out of the ordinary. If you see anything like this and it persists, go see a doctor.

I slept outside a lot this summer and received my fair share of spider bites. They looked similar to a small bruise, and disappeared in about the same time. Again, look for anything that persists.

You also should say where you are from. There are only a couple of poisonious spiders on the eastern coast of the US and none are small and white. Chances are it is a harmless spider.

Of course you should be concerned. Look what happened to me - I was responsible for Uncle Ben's death, can't get the girl I want, and have made all those enemies. Spider-life sucks man!

It might be a concern if it was a sac spider of the genus Cheiracanthium. Those are small whitish or yellow spiders with black mouthparts and are fairly common in houses. They are actually fairly venomous and can cause skin lesions (not usually as severe as brown recluse bites can be). I was bitten by a sac spider once and it produced a headache and fever for about a day and a half, but fortunately no necrosis. Not all species are medically significant, but sometimes people have a reaction.

Most sac spider bites just itch. Some may cause a sharp headache. If it starts to blister or ooze or if any skin trouble spreads, see a doctor.

are you sure those little yellow spiders are baddies? we have some in our house that live on walls and make a one inch long tube of a web they can hide in - a sac? is that the kind you mean?

funny coincidence, i'm doing a shcool report on poisonous animals and from what i can find, the most poisonous spider is supposed to be the sydney funnel web, the most poisonous jellyfish is the sea wasp, and the most poisonous snake is the inland taipan, all of them are in austrailia. croc dundee (lol) said the funnel web spider was more poisonous than the black widow, now scientists say he was probably right. australia has lots of poisonous critters, any idea why? isolation? weather?

so is the funnel web the most poisonous? my old guiness book of records says its the brazilian wandering spider.

Those are sac spiders. There's a chance they aren't any of the medically significant varieties, but I wouldn't pick them up bare-handed. While most spiders do not readily bite, some sac spiders will bite without provocation and it could be one of the potentially harmful ones. It might be a "dry" bite (no venom). In fact, there's usually no harm at all beyond some localized stinging and possible itching from a yellow sac spider bite, but if you get a full-blown envenomation, there's a small chance you could be making doctor visits for weeks to get the ulceration under control.

You're in luck with that report. I'm an amateur naturalist and a lifelong arachnophile. Since I'm bored right now, I'll give you a crash course in venomous animals.

To answer your last question, we may never know for certain which spider (or other animal) actually possesses the venom which is most dangerous to humans. The most accurate assessment would be the LD/50 test, in which groups of subjects are injected with various doses of a purified venom in order to find the smallest dose (per kilogram of body mass of the test subject) at which half of the subjects die. The LD in LD/50 stands for lethal dose; the 50 (which should be written as a subscript) stands for 50%. As you can imagine, human volunteers for such tests would be rather scarce.

Even LD/50 tests are not conclusive, as potency of venom within the same species can vary from one spider to the next depending on the age of the spider, the season, geographic location, how recently the spider has fed, how well hydrated it is, etc. Some dangerous spiders bite aggressively (e.g., Phoneutria, Hadronyche, Atrax), while others are timid, most bites occurring by accident (e.g., Latrodectus). Even the aggressive species may only deliver a dry bite or inject little venom, so accurately assessing the medical significance of a species is difficult. Degree of envenomation obviously affects the severity of symptoms. The brown widow (Latrodectus geometricus) is thought by some researchers to possess a more toxic venom than its more famous relative, the black widow (L. mactans), tests on lab animals indicating as much, yet it typically produces and injects much less venom, so serious envenomations are far rarer with brown widows. Age, weight and health status of the bite victim and the location of the bite on the body are also factors in the severity of symptoms. LD/50 tests on mice, rats or rabbits are somewhat inconclusive, as human reactions to venom (particularly neurotoxic components) are often much different than the reactions of other animals. Australian funnel-web spiders, for example, pose little hazard to dogs and cats, but to primates (which are dramatically affected by most neurotoxins), their bites can often be life-threatening if untreated.

Over 38,800 species of spiders have been named. Since most spiders have a propensity for hiding, some arachnologists estimate there may be over 200,000 species in existence. Of the 38,800+ species identified, fewer than 300 species are thought to be medically significant to humans and only about 35 species are known with certainty to be dangerous or potentially dangerous; almost all of these occur in the genera Hadronyche, Atrax, Phoneutria, Sicarius, Latrodectus, Loxosceles and Cheiracanthium.

Spider venoms (as well as snake venoms) are somewhat more diverse than the venoms of most stinging animals (wasps, bees, ants, scorpions and some fish and marine invertebrates) inasmuch as spiders use venom primarily for the purpose of feeding, either to paralyze prey or to facilitate digestion or both, and their venom is not used as often for self defense. Spider venoms therefore are chemical cocktails often consisting of dozens of toxins, most of which are effective against their usual prey, with a scant few components possibly being present in quantities which are harmful to humans.

Most social insects sting in defense of their nest, and their venoms are designed to produce lingering pain but not usually be fatal to intruders (teaching them a lesson), unless the intruder will not leave, in which case, hundreds or thousands of stings will be lethal. The venom of many hymenopterans (wasps, bees, ants) contains isopentyl acetate, which acts as an "alarm pheromone" to alert other workers into action to defend the colony. Social insects tend to become more dangerous in the late summer, as venom concentration increases to allow fluid retention and as the adults protect their next generation more aggressively.

Solitary wasps are not typically aggressive and normally possess venoms which incapacitate their prey. A spider wasp will paralyze a spider and lay an egg on the victim, allowing the larva to feed for a few weeks on the live spider. These solitary wasps are nonaggressive and must normally be handled or persistently tormented before they will sting humans, but some stings are among the most painful of all insect stings. The large tarantula hawk (Pepsis formosa) of the Southwest United States has aposematic coloring (shiny or contrasting, as a warning) - dark, metallic blue with fiery red-orange wings. This is similar in purpose to the warning coloration of monarch butterflies (poisonous to eat), skunks (effective defense mechanism) and Gila monsters (venomous bite). The tarantula hawk can momentarily incapacitate a human with a sting that feels like a blindingly powerful electric shock. The pain, which is dozens of times more intense than that of bee stings, thankfully only lasts for a few minutes, but it is easy to see how these wasps could paralyze tarantulas and keep them immobilized for weeks.

Scorpions sting both when subduing prey and for self defense. Generally (with a few exceptions), scorpions with larger pedipalps (pincers) possess less potent venom, since the pincers are powerful enough to control the prey (or battle a small predator) without need for an instantaneously deadly sting. The death stalker (Leiurus quinquestriatus) and the fat-tailed scorpions (Androctonus mauretanicus and A. australis) are small with very thin pincers and are considered the most venomous scorpions in the world, while the emperor scorpion (Pandinus imperator) is a huge specimen with frighteningly robust pincers, yet its sting is virtually harmless (a painful jolt, but normally no more dangerous than a bee sting), and it makes a popular pet.

Animals in warmer year-round climates tend to have the most potent venoms, since the concentration of toxin must be higher in order to retain fluids for circulation and cooling. The primary prey source also affects the potency of venom. Venomous snakes which prey almost exclusively on birds, for example, need very fast-acting neurotoxins to immediately incapacitate their prey, as a snake could not easily find a bird that had escaped, flown off and died at a remote location. The same is true of sea snakes, which feed on fish - most are virulently toxic to their prey (and to humans).

As you have already learned, Australia has the greatest percentage of toxic animals, with the most venomous snakes, spiders and jellyfish in the world.

It is now thought that the Toowoomba funnel-web spider (Hadronyche infensa), found in Queensland and New South Wales, is the spider with the most dangerous venom to humans. Its venom action is neurotoxic to humans, as are the venoms of other funnel-web spiders and spiders in the genera Phoneutria, Latrodectus and Missulena. Severe envenomation by spiders in the genera Sicarius and Loxosceles can cause tissue necrosis (via the enzyme sphingomyelinase D) and sometimes systemic poisoning resulting in pulmonary edema, cardiac arrest or kidney failure (rare in Loxosceles species). Some spiders in the genera Tegenaria (specifically T. agrestis) and Cheiracanthium (those yellow sac spiders) are also known to be capable of causing severe ulcerations. Other spiders have been implicated in cases of necrosis, including several wolf spiders (notably Lycosa erythrognatha of S. America) and white-tailed spiders (genus Lampona) of Australia and New Zealand, but most of these reactions are thought to be due to individual susceptibility to infection by Mycobacterium ulcerans or Clostridium perfringens, due to other existing medical conditions which predispose the bite victim to necrosis, or due to misidentified bites from Loxosceles species. In fact, no causative agent for necrosis has been found in purified white-tailed spider venom and all bites in which the spider was collected for positive identification have produced only localized burning pain (and sometimes redness, mild nausea and headache) which resolved within a day or two, having no lasting effects.

It should be remembered that while most spider bites are completely inconsequential, any bite can become infected and many species not considered dangerous can cause illness or allergic reaction in susceptible individuals (those particularly sensitive to the venom or with poor immune status). Almost all spiders possess venom glands, and bites from some so-called nonpoisonous ones (e.g., Badumna insignis, Steatoda nobilis, Heteropoda venetoria, Argiope aurantia, Phidippus johnsoni and many others) can cause short-term pain, nausea, vomiting, pruritis, vesicles, etc. Other bites, such as that of the European water spider (Argyroneta aquatica), produce excruciating localized pain but without severe consequences.

Following is a list of what are currently believed to be the most venomous spiders, those which have been proven to cause dangerous systemic reactions and/or severe dermonecrotic lesions. Obviously, no LD/50 tests have been done on humans, so this list is a best guess based on reported effects of known bites. Acquisition of this knowledge has in turn been largely dependent on the potential for human interaction with the spiders in question. More is known about black widow envenomation than is known about that of the Namibian six-eyed sand spider (Sicarius hahni), since bites from Sicarius species are extremely rare (although S. hahni is known to be highly toxic and is thought to have the greatest potential for necrotic arachnidism of any known spider, with reported systemic distress as well). There are 100 classified species in the genus Loxosceles (which includes the notorious brown recluse), 32 species in the genus Latrodectus (widows) and 22 species in the genus Sicarius, but many of these species have little interaction with humans or are reluctant to bite, so not much is known about their potential for dangerous bites (and, not surprisingly, few humans volunteer to be deliberately envenomated for science). It is assumed that some uncommonly encountered spiders within a particular genus known to contain several dangerous species have the potential for dangerous bites themselves.

Most venomous spiders:

Hadronyche infensa (Toowoomba funnel-web - Australia)

Hadronyche formidabilis (Northern tree funnel-web - Australia)

Atrax robustus (Sydney funnel-web - Australia, male up to 6 times more toxic than female)

Hadronyche versuta (Blue Mountains funnel-web - Australia)

other Hadronyche species (Australia, Tasmania, New Guinea, Solomon Islands)

Phoneutria fera (wandering spider - Amazon region, chiefly Brazil, Ecuador, Peru)

Phoneutria nigriventer (wandering spider - Brazil, Paraguay, Argentina, Uruguay)

other Phoneutria species (S. America, Central America)

Sicarius hahni (six-eyed sand spider - chiefly Namibia)

a few other Sicarius species (Africa, S. America)

Latrodectus mactans (Southern black widow - widely distributed, chiefly S. United States)

Latrodectus hesperus (Western black widow - chiefly W. United States)

Latrodectus hasselti (redback - chiefly Australia, New Zealand)

Latrodectus katipo (katipo - New Zealand, Australia)

Latrodectus indistinctus (button spider - S. Africa)

Latrodectus tredecimguttatus (malmignatte - Mediterranean areas)

other Latrodectus species (widows - worldwide)

Loxosceles laeta (corner spider - S. America, Central America, introduced to S. United States)

Loxosceles reclusa (brown recluse - S. United States, Mexico, Central America)

other Loxosceles species (chiefly tropical, subtropical and desert areas)

Harpactirella lightfooti (baboon spider - S. Africa)

Macrothele taiwanensis (Taiwanese funnel-web - Taiwan)

Tegenaria agrestis (hobo spider - W. Europe, introduced to Pacific Northwest U.S.)

Cheiracanthium furculatum (sac spider - W. Africa)

Cheiracanthium lawrencei (sac spider - Africa)

Cheiracanthium inclusum (sac spider - worldwide, chiefly Americas, Africa)

Cheiracanthium mildei (sac spider - N. Hemisphere, chiefly S. United States)

a few other Cheiracanthium species (worldwide)

Missulena bradleyi (Eastern mouse spider - Australia)

An urban legend says that harvestmen (also called daddy longlegs) have the most poisonous venom but have mouthparts so small that they cannot bite humans. The first part of this is untrue. Harvestmen are not spiders (though they are arachnids), they have no venom glands, have not been known to bite, and can be handled with impunity (though most do have stink glands). There is a spider (Pholcus phalangioides) which is sometimes called daddy longlegs (its actual common name is the vibrating cellar spider). This spider does have venom and can bite, but does so rarely and its venom has always been virtually harmless to humans (it is actually fairly weak against insects, too).

Another myth concerns the so-called camel spiders of the Middle East. Stories have circulated that they are up to 10 inches across, can run faster than a man and can inject an anesthetizing venom into sleeping soldiers and chew on their flesh. These animals have been studied for decades and have never exhibited any of the above characteristics in the presence of scientists. They are not spiders; they are known as solfugids (or solpugids), commonly called wind scorpions (they are not scorpions, either, and cannot sting). They are normally found in desert regions, most having a leg span of 2-3 inches, with the Near Eastern and Middle Eastern varieties being the largest (maximum leg span of 6 inches), but not as large as reported in stories. They are fast for a small, crawling creature (faster - for a few seconds - than normal human walking speed) and will run toward humans to find shade, but not to attack them. They are nonvenomous, although they can bite and the bite wound may become infected, which could give rise to the stories about their being venomous or flesh-eating.

I was bitten by a Redback.

A trip to the doctor and a little concerned.

Doc says spider bites are very slow to give symptoms.4-6hrs)

The result for Me was that I developed a red, hot rash around the bite that lasted a couple of days.A little like a bad case of sunburn.

No nausea or such.

No long term affects.

Excellent Post.

Holy crap. That has to be the most intelligent and thought out post ever written on letsrun. Amazing.

I was always under the assumption that the "daddy long legs" spider actually was the most venomous spider, but as they can't release it in any way, they are, as we all know, harmless to humans.

Are you in Australia? If so, that spider was one of the jet black, shiny, globular-shaped ones, right? Just like the American black widow except with a single red stripe running down the dorsal (back) side of the abdomen? If you're in the U.S. (particularly Western U.S.), that spider may have been an immature black widow (hasn't completed its final sub-adult molt and doesn't have its adult coloration) or it could be a redback jumping spider (Phidippus johnsoni), which is stocky, somewhat hairy and has a black cephalothorax and legs with an entirely red (dorsal) abdomen.

In any event, those bite symptoms are typical of a normal widow envenomation, particularly by the Australian redback widow. The redback's bite symptoms are usually more localized (perhaps with lymph node pain), in contrast to the U.S.'s black widow, which can produce more muscle spasms and abdominal rigidity. Most cases resolve on their own without severe consequences, since widows do not normally inject a maximum dose of venom. The sensationalized cases that receive media attention are the ones we typically associate with black widows or other dangerous spiders, but even bites from these "deadly" spiders are not usually serious. The redback and other widows are certainly potentially dangerous, but the outcome you described is far more common than a life-threatening situation is. There is an antivenom available for widow bites, but doctors are reluctant to administer it if they don't have to, since the potential for allergic reaction to the antivenom is almost as great as the potential for the bite to become serious.

The redback jumping spider (Phidippus johnsoni) of the Western U.S. has also been implicated in bites which produce redness and burning pain at the bite site, but it is not associated with anything more serious than that and is not considered "poisonous."

Symptoms that manifest in 4-6 hours are more typical of cytotoxic/necrotic venoms (as with the brown recluse). Cytotoxic venom is designed to digest prey outside of the spider's body, and producing any pain in large animals (such as humans) is not a necessary quality of such a spider's arsenal, as it would be for a wasp defending its nest. Consequently, a bite victim can be unaware of the often painless bite at the time it occurs, which makes identification of the offending spider difficult. In fact, many necrotic skin lesions are misdiagnosed as spider bites (the brown recluse is a popular scapegoat even when it does not occur in the area). Most neurotoxic venoms can produce pain or numbness at the bite site almost immediately and symptoms normally do not take more than two hours to worsen (if the envenomation was serious enough).

See the next to last paragraph in my long post above.