I think back in the day, the stereotype that teachers didn't make much money was true. My high school teachers drove beater cars. But not when I drop my son off at school, the teacher's parking lot has nicer cars than me and we make close to 300k combined. There are new Mercedes, Land Rovers, F150 trucks, Toyota Sequoias, Land Rovers, Rav 4 hybrids, BMWs, Porsche SUVs etc.
Keep in mind they only work 3/4 of the year so that 65k is more like 87k. Average household income in the USA is more like 50k.
Anyways, this isn't intended to be a teacher-bashing thread. Personally I LOVE some of my teachers so I'm glad those ones are well paid.
Point is did you realize they were paid so highly?
Add the benefits package and it can be a decent living. I am glad you put the 3/4 in there. Most people don't realize that teachers are on a 184 day contract (give or take). School boards spread the pay out over 12 months, but teachers can opt to only get paid during the school year. The misconception is that teachers are paid for a full 240ish or so days of work. They are not. This leads to the "must be nice to get a full salary and the summer off" attitude. Teachers don't get paid for not working in the summer.
I think back in the day, the stereotype that teachers didn't make much money was true. My high school teachers drove beater cars. But not when I drop my son off at school, the teacher's parking lot has nicer cars than me and we make close to 300k combined. There are new Mercedes, Land Rovers, F150 trucks, Toyota Sequoias, Land Rovers, Rav 4 hybrids, BMWs, Porsche SUVs etc.
As a retired teacher who often defends my profession I observed this as well (not Porsches). These are the teachers who nevertheless complained about their pay. Meanwhile I took the subway to work and living in NYC always drove a smaller toyota. These cars were often leased.
Teaching is the among the cushiest jobs there is and easiest major, so yes we need to stop acting like they are astronauts. But, I think all of you are living in 1989 or whenever you got out of college? 65K is nothing. You want teachers to make poverty wages? 65k is barely enough to buy a tiny house and one car. Sh!* is expensive. 65 just aint what it used to be. if its a great job and 65 K is big bucks then why dont all you go back to community college and get a certificate?
Having said all of that, I would like to see them get docked 100$ an hour for every day they let my kids out for half day. Not everyone has stay at home mom or dad these days chuckleheads. Just watch the dang kids til 3 each day ok?
65k is a solid salary in Central Ohio.
No it's not. You can't afford a home in Dublin, Worthington, Olentangy, etc, for less than 400 these days. Good luck paying for that with a 65k salary.
I think back in the day, the stereotype that teachers didn't make much money was true. My high school teachers drove beater cars. But not when I drop my son off at school, the teacher's parking lot has nicer cars than me and we make close to 300k combined. There are new Mercedes, Land Rovers, F150 trucks, Toyota Sequoias, Land Rovers, Rav 4 hybrids, BMWs, Porsche SUVs etc.
Any chance these teachers have spouses who work too? I mean, it's possible.
I think the more accurate word is probable. Stop worrying about how much a teacher makes. It is a rewarding, great, frustrating, beat head against wall career but it isn't financially rewarding for MOST people because the cost of living in most places makes supporting a family on 61k or 65k impossible, not to mention a starting salary for most in the low 40s.
Kind of like being a cop, being a teacher was a good job 25+ years ago. Not anymore. Times have changed, and so have the policies, protocols, expectations and restrictions placed on educators. Other than the time off, the rewards are few and difficult to attain. I'm grateful for my teachers. I'm glad they got to teach when they did, and not nowadays - and that I got to grow up largely unaffected by all the crap that faces young people these days. The days of teachers teaching and kids being kids are over, and that's too bad. $65K ? Not sure it would be worth that.
MOCO in MD outside DC just gave the "hero" teachers an effective 6% bump while hiring them a new boss with a sweet nearly $400K/yr package that includes a car.
I think the more accurate word is probable. Stop worrying about how much a teacher makes. It is a rewarding, great, frustrating, beat head against wall career but it isn't financially rewarding for MOST people because the cost of living in most places makes supporting a family on 61k or 65k impossible, not to mention a starting salary for most in the low 40s.
I'm on your team bro. I'm not worrying about it at all - I'm actually advocating for teacher pay increases. I was simply pointing out the fact that if someone is noticing nice cars in the school parking lot, it's likely because teachers often can only live comfortably in middle class if they have spouses who work too. Many of my teacher colleagues have partners who are bankers, doctors, etc.
Teaching is, after all, a promotion-less job. Hired as a teacher... retire as a teacher. Hence the military type salary schedule. Rank and experience... though you'll have private sector folks crap on that system too.
I think the more accurate word is probable. Stop worrying about how much a teacher makes. It is a rewarding, great, frustrating, beat head against wall career but it isn't financially rewarding for MOST people because the cost of living in most places makes supporting a family on 61k or 65k impossible, not to mention a starting salary for most in the low 40s.
I'm on your team bro. I'm not worrying about it at all - I'm actually advocating for teacher pay increases. I was simply pointing out the fact that if someone is noticing nice cars in the school parking lot, it's likely because teachers often can only live comfortably in middle class if they have spouses who work too. Many of my teacher colleagues have partners who are bankers, doctors, etc.
Teaching is, after all, a promotion-less job. Hired as a teacher... retire as a teacher. Hence the military type salary schedule. Rank and experience... though you'll have private sector folks crap on that system too.
Teaching is, after all, a promotion-less job.
Wrong.
For those with ambition, hire as a teacher, retire wealthy as a superintendent.
I think the more accurate word is probable. Stop worrying about how much a teacher makes. It is a rewarding, great, frustrating, beat head against wall career but it isn't financially rewarding for MOST people because the cost of living in most places makes supporting a family on 61k or 65k impossible, not to mention a starting salary for most in the low 40s.
Teaching is, after all, a promotion-less job. Hired as a teacher... retire as a teacher. Hence the military type salary schedule. Rank and experience... though you'll have private sector folks crap on that system too.
Teachers have MASSIVE pay increases built into their contracts, they don't need promotions. There is no performance component to those pay increases. You can do a crappy job and get paid more, and there is NO RISK of ever getting fired.
I think back in the day, the stereotype that teachers didn't make much money was true. My high school teachers drove beater cars. But not when I drop my son off at school, the teacher's parking lot has nicer cars than me and we make close to 300k combined. There are new Mercedes, Land Rovers, F150 trucks, Toyota Sequoias, Land Rovers, Rav 4 hybrids, BMWs, Porsche SUVs etc.
Maybe they have a high household income because of their spouses and can drive nice cars.
I know my wife, who teaches is getting a nice new car but that’s because I make a lot more than her and cover most of the bills.
I'm on your team bro. I'm not worrying about it at all - I'm actually advocating for teacher pay increases. I was simply pointing out the fact that if someone is noticing nice cars in the school parking lot, it's likely because teachers often can only live comfortably in middle class if they have spouses who work too. Many of my teacher colleagues have partners who are bankers, doctors, etc.
Teaching is, after all, a promotion-less job. Hired as a teacher... retire as a teacher. Hence the military type salary schedule. Rank and experience... though you'll have private sector folks crap on that system too.
Teaching is, after all, a promotion-less job.
Wrong.
For those with ambition, hire as a teacher, retire wealthy as a superintendent.
That would be a change in jobs altogether, requiring different education and experience. Superintendents aren't teachers. Further, your suggestion that advancement means leaving the classroom puts teaching in the category of entry level position.
Is that who you want teaching your child to read? 1st year teachers?
Teaching is, after all, a promotion-less job. Hired as a teacher... retire as a teacher. Hence the military type salary schedule. Rank and experience... though you'll have private sector folks crap on that system too.
Teachers have MASSIVE pay increases built into their contracts, they don't need promotions. There is no performance component to those pay increases. You can do a crappy job and get paid more, and there is NO RISK of ever getting fired.
How would you do it then? How would you rate the performance of elementary art teachers vs middle school band teachers vs high school calculus teachers? What data would you use? Would the same system apply to those who teach disabled students?
I'll wait for your enlightened response, I'm sure laden with terms like "annual review" (principals struggle to find time to do this already), "performance goals", "test data" (many subjects have no viable test data), and so forth.
Good luck! This has been discussed a million times in educational circles, so I can't wait to hear your input.
Teachers have MASSIVE pay increases built into their contracts, they don't need promotions. There is no performance component to those pay increases. You can do a crappy job and get paid more, and there is NO RISK of ever getting fired.
How would you do it then? How would you rate the performance of elementary art teachers vs middle school band teachers vs high school calculus teachers? What data would you use? Would the same system apply to those who teach disabled students?
I'll wait for your enlightened response, I'm sure laden with terms like "annual review" (principals struggle to find time to do this already), "performance goals", "test data" (many subjects have no viable test data), and so forth.
Good luck! This has been discussed a million times in educational circles, so I can't wait to hear your input.
With standardized tests, duh. Everyone knows that students always do their best on standardized high stakes tests and teachers should be judged based on how their students perform. It's not rocket science.
Teachers have MASSIVE pay increases built into their contracts, they don't need promotions. There is no performance component to those pay increases. You can do a crappy job and get paid more, and there is NO RISK of ever getting fired.
How would you do it then? How would you rate the performance of elementary art teachers vs middle school band teachers vs high school calculus teachers? What data would you use? Would the same system apply to those who teach disabled students?
I'll wait for your enlightened response, I'm sure laden with terms like "annual review" (principals struggle to find time to do this already), "performance goals", "test data" (many subjects have no viable test data), and so forth.
Good luck! This has been discussed a million times in educational circles, so I can't wait to hear your input.
Easy - evaluate the teachers based on their students' proficiency in the class. If the 10th grade English teacher has his/her students reading at the 8th grade level at the end of the year, the teacher should get his/her pay CUT.
Literally every other job has performance reviews. The McDonald's fry cook has performance reviews. The bagger at the grocery store has performance reviews. The greeter at Wal-Mart has performance reviews.
How would you do it then? How would you rate the performance of elementary art teachers vs middle school band teachers vs high school calculus teachers? What data would you use? Would the same system apply to those who teach disabled students?
I'll wait for your enlightened response, I'm sure laden with terms like "annual review" (principals struggle to find time to do this already), "performance goals", "test data" (many subjects have no viable test data), and so forth.
Good luck! This has been discussed a million times in educational circles, so I can't wait to hear your input.
Easy - evaluate the teachers based on their students' proficiency in the class. If the 10th grade English teacher has his/her students reading at the 8th grade level at the end of the year, the teacher should get his/her pay CUT.
Literally every other job has performance reviews. The McDonald's fry cook has performance reviews. The bagger at the grocery store has performance reviews. The greeter at Wal-Mart has performance reviews.
What if they started the year at the 5th grade level? And how many students matter? All of them? Is 90% good enough? What if all of them were reading above grade level to start the year? What tool are you using to measure that reading level? What if students don't try on the test, because it doesn't affect them directly - or worse, they tank purposely because they know it affects their teacher's pay?
What about art classes? What's the difference between 7th grade art skills and 8th grade art skills? And who is doing all of these performance reviews? Principals are busy with students much of the day, communicating with parents, engaging in the business of the school. How are they to do performance reviews? And when?
Shouldn't one wait until the END of the year to test students - if teachers are to be rated based on growth? Michigan tests in early April, a full 2 months before school ends. Should students' growth be prorated then?
Nebulous, vague terms like "performance standards" and "annual review" mean absolutely f'n nothing until you put details behind the terms. The problem, of course, is that the "products" in education are people, not objects.
Which is why the McDonald's manager can more easily give a performance rating to a fry cook than one can to a teacher. Fries don't have crappy homes, inconsistent support, motivation issues... or free will.
For those with ambition, hire as a teacher, retire wealthy as a superintendent.
That would be a change in jobs altogether, requiring different education and experience. Superintendents aren't teachers. Further, your suggestion that advancement means leaving the classroom puts teaching in the category of entry level position.
Is that who you want teaching your child to read? 1st year teachers?
Show me any industry where you don't change jobs as you are promoted. If you want to do the exact same thing all of your life, of course you won't get promoted. You could be a soldier who starts as a private and retires as a general. The general is not doing the same job as the private, but they are both still soldiering. The teacher fresh out of the normal school and the "Dr. Jill" superintendent are both employed in the education industry with at least the same basic mission to educate children on reading, writing, arithmetic, and the 57 genders, but they are on either end of the career spectrum.
That would be a change in jobs altogether, requiring different education and experience. Superintendents aren't teachers. Further, your suggestion that advancement means leaving the classroom puts teaching in the category of entry level position.
Is that who you want teaching your child to read? 1st year teachers?
Show me any industry where you don't change jobs as you are promoted. If you want to do the exact same thing all of your life, of course you won't get promoted. You could be a soldier who starts as a private and retires as a general. The general is not doing the same job as the private, but they are both still soldiering. The teacher fresh out of the normal school and the "Dr. Jill" superintendent are both employed in the education industry with at least the same basic mission to educate children on reading, writing, arithmetic, and the 57 genders, but they are on either end of the career spectrum.
I gave you one. Teaching. What if a person actually wants to teach kids their whole career, and not play poltician at central office wearing the suit and tie?
I get it that it's still the education industry. But the vast majority of educators are... teachers. Those working directly with kids... teachers.
There are no promotions there. When teachers choose a path for continued education (M Ed, they can typically go two routes - admin or classroom.
If you choose classroom... guess what? You're still a teacher. I have two Master's Degrees and 27 years experience. I'm not lazy. But I have the same job as my colleague just out of college.