New Balance is going for the DMR WR next Friday and will have HSer Roisin Willis on the team - Does this mean she's going pro?

Bianca isn't altogether wrong, if a little extreme. Forgetting those at the world best level for the moment, that two HSers are faster than anyone in the NCAA, is concerning. Two 19yo (College age women) were 1 and 2 at the OG. So don't tell me women can't run the 800m fast at that age (College). Even discounting the number of foreign women in the NCAA, the development is not as much (in depth) as it should or could be. Seriously, other than the free education at a good school (Stanford) what do Willis and Whittaker have to gain athletically? Do they stagnate running against slower women for 4 years (other than presumably Gorrarian moving into the mix the year after)?

As to the Brits, both Hodgkinson and Reekie could be in the ncaa this year, running against who? So I think Bianca's point might be that the depth in NCAA is weak and should be better.

With the men, many of the underclass NCAA 800m champions have turned pro before their senior year. Will this pattern (like Mu) now become common for the women?

The NCAA ranks are not fast this year (yet), but that’s a very incomplete part of the picture. First of all, Mu is college-aged so losing her is a big deal. Secondly, NCAA runners breaking 2 before April has never been the norm.

Reekie is 24 so I don’t know why she would be in the NCAA. The top US talent looks like it will go one-and-done at the NCAA level or straight to pro at an increasing level. This happened with Mu, Hocker, McLaughlin and others. US depth is fine it’s just a bit down as far as stars at the NCAA level. These high school phenoms have options and Raevyn Rogers stayed in school and kept winning, so that’s not a bad route either especially now with NIL. There’s nothing pathetic about a historic year for high schoolers in the 800 and a more normal one at the NCAA level.

Well maybe women breaking 2 before SHOULD be the norm. Men's WR is 1;41. Numerous collegians run around 1:46 or faster. About 5 seconds or faster. The women's record is 1:53. . How many women are running 5 seconds slower than that? Zero? What the heck is wrong with 800 meter women? Do they prefer not to run fast? Just high school times?

you guys act like high school kids running two flat happens all the time. the truth is we happen to be in a moment where we have multiple EXCEPTIONAL high school runners all at the same time. high school girls generally arent running nearly this fast normally. World Athletics ranks Willis in the top 60 in the world. There is only one other athlete younger than her who is ranked higher. So its not as if "because Willis is fast all college athletes suck". Willis is exceptional. so get back to us in a year or two when they are all in college (assuming they dont go pro) and see what kind of times are being run then.

You’re missing that that 800 women record is a doped one that has only been challenged by DSD athletes recently. Maybe Mu can get to 1:54.5. Think about it this way…to have a realistic shot to make an 800 final you need to be able to run sub-1:58.5, for men that number is probably sub-1:44.5. So is there really such a difference in college where 1:45-1:47 makes you a podium contender and 1:59-2:01 for the women? Not really to me.

Willis has run in NB for a few years now. I have always found it strange but this affiliation certainly helped in her inclusion for this race. Can she run with Stanford and have an NIL deal with NB? She is not ready to go pro. Knowing her parents and the control they have over her training, it may be tempting to not let go but giving up a Stanford education would be a shame.

Agreed that we are far from pitiful, but even as an American I'm not so sure we would triumph over the brits in a 4x8 (which I'm using instead of your dual meet idea) much less the rest of the world. They had 3 Olympic finalists last year and their 4th is Laura Muir who is pretty damn good. At the very least it would be a great race and I DO think either of those teams would beat a "rest of the world" squad in a 3 way race at full strength.

Based on 2021 performance list, it's:

Athing Mu 1:55.04

Raevyn Rogers 1:56.81

Kate grace 1:57.20

Ajee Wilson 1:58.39 (~7:47.44)

versus

Keely Hodgkinson 1:55.88

Laura Muir 1:56.73

Jemma Reekie 1:56.90

Alexandra Bell 1:57.66 (~7:47.17)

Given those numbers, GBR wins by something less than three tenths of a second. But given the races those times came in (3 GBR in the Olympic final, Mu wins by 2.5 seconds in Eugene), my gut says U.S. would be faster in a flat out relay. But it would be a hell of a race.

Ajee did run 1:57.85 in a mixed gender race last year, which technically doesn't count. I think she is healthy and better this year. Meanwhile, something is going on with Reekie. Muir and Hodgkinson battling injuries. Anyhow, it's more fun to discuss this when everyone is running well. All 4 Brits were last year, but I couldn't say that about Ajee.

So if all are on their game, Ajee is more in the 1:56 range and I'd take the US over UK by a solid margin especially with Mu's ability to bring it home. The US and UK are strong to the point where whoever you sub in (likely Alemu, Goule or Wang?) it doesn't make a gigantic difference.

Posted this on the pre race thread but reportedly Sydney is OUT. Kendall Ellis is IN.