slowest 400m speed for a sub4 miler?

I knew a 53 point guy who ran 1:50 point in the 800

ok, i'll accept a 54 guy running 56-58, or 57-57, but (and not really to be nitpicking here) my original reply dealt with a 56 guy, and 2 secs difference of top 400 speed is signifigant. todd williams is a good example, thank you

to go back to my point originally about a 56 sec being minimum. I should probably clarify and include the fact that the prediction should really be based on someone who is genetically suited to running a mile race in the first place. A talented 400m guy can run 48 sec and could double up to a 1:52 (give or take) but could never go a sub 4 in the mile. I agree with the post about using your basic speed abilities to the best advantage.

I guess that should really be the starting point of the argument. The guy must be a natural miler not a 100m runner who could run a 48sec 400m but couldnt not make it 4 times around the track!!We have all seen those guys before.

I dont think the guy who said a 54 was a million miles out either - but I think we are all in the same ball park of 56 and given different genetic make ups its not a bad rule of thumb.

I really can't see a runner with a "real" 400 PR of 56 breaking 4 in the mile. I don't have any scientific evidence, but I'm thinking back on my high school track days and the team I ran on. Our team was pretty good (by Southeast US standards) and we all ran the 4 X 400 pretty much every small meet. Our top miler (4:20 or so) ran about 52-53 on a good day. I guess he could have gone a couple of seconds faster if he'd really concentrated on it. A couple of slightly slower milers could run about the same kind of 400 times as him. Nobody was blindingly fast, but every guy I thought of as fast (sub 4:40 or so) could at least run 55. Most of the scrubs such as myself (I ran about 5:10) could at least break 60. Actually, I was probably the slowest 400 guy on the team, usually running 61-63 if I was trying hard. My all time best split was like 60.7. And I know that sucks, but the point is, I was famously short on speed. People always made fun of it. Years later, by which time I had improved some overall, I got my 1500 time down to 4:12, but ran a couple of open 400s and still couldn't quite break 60. I was quite proud to be able to run even a 4:12 given my complete lack of basic speed, because it meant I could hold 67-68 pace despite not being able to break 60. I even thought to myself that I must be the slowest guy around to be able to run 4:12. Anyway, to sum up, almost every runner I've ever been around who trained regularly could break 60, and most of these guys had very little natural talent. Anybody who could break 5:00 seemed to be able to run at least 56-57. So when somebody suggests a sub 4 miler with a 56 400 PR, I think of one of my old HS teammates in Scrubland and try to think of them running a sub 4 mile, and I'm thinking, no way. I supposed it's possible that a sub-4 miler exists who never actually has broken 56, but only because he never ran a hard 400. Even that seems unlikely, though. Just based on my observations of all the runners I have personally encountered, I'd say about 52-53 would be the minimum speed needed for a sub 4.

I'm with Tom M. There's no way someone who's 400 PR is actually 56 can be capable of a sub four minute mile. Nope. I would suspect 52 is the minimum, and that isn't that fast. The problem is that so many runners don't realize what they are actually capable of in the 400 because they don't race or train for it - but latent abilities are there. A lot of guys with no leg speed also hope that tons of endurance and lactate tolerance will make up for it, but no way. Look at the speed Roger Bannister had over 400 meters back in the mid 50's (48 seconds in relays). World class milers need 48 speed at least. They may not have run that fast, but they are no doubt capable of it.

Bare minimum for sub4: Usually 52, but T. Williams has run 4:00 and was 53/54sec guy.

Bare minimum for world class 1500m runner: 47/48 sec. 48 seconds would be about 3:30/3:47 and I would consider that what you need if you want ot up w. the best.