Average high school distance runner 4 x 400 relay team vs El G over 1600m

CopperRunner wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

Any high school with 4 distance runners capable of a 56 is waaaaaaay better than average.

Which only shows how waaaaaaaay slower than El G everyone is

Idk about this one, maybe it’s cause my highschool team constantly hammered anaerobic intervals, but we had me running around 53, 2 guys around 55, and a 57ish guy my senior year for a distance 4x4. We were also the epitome of average

A lot of semi competitive runners fall into the trap of thinking they are average because they compare themselves to the very top and know that they can’t compete. I remember thinking this way, I was always very hard on myself as a runner because I knew I couldn’t make it at the state level(California). But looking back on it my team was better than the majority of high school teams, it blows me away to see that some schools can go years without someone cracking 5 in the mile. Your “average team” sounds just like mine, distance oriented guys with a little speed, had a guy run 52, 53, and me and another 2 guys could split 56-57. This was from the cross country team alone, we had another “sprinter” who could run 54. I may be wrong but I think this phenomenon of labeling a well above average team as simply average is a somewhat California-centric mentality, runner kids here grow up in a near collegiate level competitive atmosphere, a team of 2 16 minute guys and 3 17 minute guys here is mid pack while in 35+ other states they are the cream of the crop.

Tldr: my theory is that fast people claiming to be average on this forum are all from California, where being average makes you really good at distance running.

OozmaKappa wrote:

What the hell kind of team cant average sub 55 in a 4x400? It's conceivable that the weak leg can only run a 57 or a 56, but there's gotta be at least one guy in your High School who can run a sub 54.

El G shouldnt be able to stand a chance against the majority of HS relay teams.

we are talking distance runners only.

high school xc coach wrote:

OozmaKappa wrote:

What the hell kind of team cant average sub 55 in a 4x400? It's conceivable that the weak leg can only run a 57 or a 56, but there's gotta be at least one guy in your High School who can run a sub 54.

El G shouldnt be able to stand a chance against the majority of HS relay teams.

we are talking distance runners only.

It seems I have overlooked a crucial detail. I went over this in the podcast. Thanks for pointing this out, you will now receive a free pair of ON running shoes.

I am indeed from California, I never really thought our state was that much better than other states though. I've never run an open 4 or a 4 x 4 (my best time was 60 low at the end of a 16 x 400 workout, I'd guess 57 high-58 low for a fresh all out 400?) and consider myself to be a pure miler / 15 guy with mid-pack basic speed (faster than most of the guys on my team who are good at 3k and up, but a little bit slower than the 800 and below guys).

Have you heard of Stillwater Area High School Coach Scott Christensen? Ben Blankenship's high school coach. As you may know, four Stillwater Area HS guys went on to race sub-4 one mile. I believe all broke 4 for one mile in college or soon after college. Christensen has been quoted as saying: All four could not break 60 seconds for 400m then by graduation, all four were sub-50 400m guys. If I got a word or two off from his exact quote, you get the gist. I do believe Christensen told the truth but the spirit of his statement was not correct. All four of those guys, Blankenship and the other three were not legit F.A.T. sub-50 400m guys in high school. All four of them could have been F.A.T. sub-50 400m guys by COLLEGE graduation. If you consider yourself a pure miler, tell your coach you want to race 800m sometime and tell your coach you want to race a 400m relay leg every now and then.

California IS that much better than most states.

Hey, thanks for reply, appreciate the advice. For this upcoming season I do intend to jump into several 800m races to see what I can do as I believe it will help my 1500 speed, my goal is to break 2 at least since I haven't touched it since sophomore year where I ran it twice - 2:13, 2:09. We have a lot of races scheduled so there should be plenty of opportunities to try different distances - I also plan to try my hand at the 5000, and perhaps the 10,000 to see if I can contribute - I was okay at 8k XC. Ultimately I believe working on both my speed and endurance throughout the season will all around make me a better miler. As for jumping into a relay as a 400 leg, we'll see if my coach thinks that's a good idea and if our team isn't already filled for that (hard to tell what our full team is since many people are still not showing up to practice).

Forgot to mention that by sophomore year I meant high school. I'm a freshman in college right now.

I’m actually from northern Utah, which is the same idea on the distance side of things. Elevation, Hills, BYU/LDS culture makes running very popular and very competitive in Utah. there were 50+ kids on each side of the roster so running varsity is actually a pretty big accomplishment. When you factor in the actual sprinters, our 4x400 lineup my senior year looked more like 51.5-53-53-54, and that was a relatively weak team for us.

Speaking of the 4 x 800, I wonder how many high school 4 x 800 relay teams could beat Komen over 3200m..

51-54 is definitely above average, though it doesn't make a great team. that is for sure. it doesn't seem that any decently athletic person can work down to a 57-59 if they can walk and chew gum at the same time. even a non-athletic person will get there if they are willing to put in work.

this is 17 and 18 year olds. once you get to late 20s and older, forget about it, if you are not athletic. I don't want the hobby joggers here to confuse prime high school age athleticism from what they are dealing with.

should say " it DOES seem that any decently athletic person can work down to a 57-59.

Bad Wigins wrote:

Any high school with 4 distance runners capable of a 56 is waaaaaaay better than average.

Which only shows how waaaaaaaay slower than El G everyone is

I was the slowest (54.xx) on our 4x4 (1979) coming from the distance side of things (I don't think we every did anything faster than 65-sec/440yd pace in practice so wasn't bad) and we were in the middle of the pack for our area at best (Las Vegas).

coach wrote:

Regarding 4x800s the Adidas national meet in Virginia requires 8:05 or better, the standard for the new balance meet in NY is 8:08 for the elite race and 8:15 for their rising stars race.

This might answer the question regarding beating Komen in a 3200

1500m-enthusiast wrote:

Speaking of the 4 x 800, I wonder how many high school 4 x 800 relay teams could beat Komen over 3200m..

Over 40 high schools each spring in U.S. could have defeated peak Komen. His 2 mile would be about 7:56 3200m. Much more difficult than your original question.

Sort of. Most states don't run 4x8.

Halfway decent 800/1600m guys would crush them both for 4x4 or 4x2 and they wouldn't have to be all that good at handoffs.

I ran 53ish in HS at "field day" for 400m. I usually did 800m-1600m/mile and never ran an open 400.

Someone mentioned 4x880 ... I ran on a 14-15yo TAC Jr. Olympic relay that ran 8:09 for the 2 mile relay - so basically 8th and 9th graders.

Try harder on your "fair" matchups. ;-)

Sounds like you weren't that average after all, if you went to the Jr. Olympics..

I will try working on my matchups though.

Coe Was Fast wrote:

Sort of. Most states don't run 4x8.

What?

In order to defeat peak el Guerrouj in one mile with a 4 x 400m relay team, 3:42. 3:42 is 27.373917% slower than 4 x 400m world record of 2:54.29

In order to defeat peak Daniel Komen in 3200m with a 4 x 800m relay team, 7:56. 7:56 is 12.681391% slower than 4 x 800m world record of 7:02.43

A 9th grade 4 x 400m relay team I was on would have kicked six different kinds of dog sh!t out of el Guerrouj, even if we had to take the one 400m specialist off relay team to honor O.P.'s question.

I would love 4 x 800m to be a standard event, NCAA, Olympics and World Championships. Even if that were the case, not too many high schools are going to be able to run 4 x 800m, 7:56