Schools closed in Chicago after teachers reject in-person classes

up the ante wrote:

Chatting with a new couple at the tennis club where our daughters take lessons. They moved out of their high rise Chicago condo in mid 2020 to a friendly red state. They are both lawyers but found they can work remote as have 70 percent of their firm. They still haven't sold the chicago condo yet but no plans to ever go back.

So um privilege? Am I right? Yes I am. Ever considered anything else???

No, I read it.

341,000 students in Chicago. You take all of the money from public schools and you put it in vouchers. Inevitably that means some schools will close (and again, you've fired all of these teachers you think should be fired).

There are not enough schools. There are not enough teachers.

Special qualifications are necessary. Why? It is federal law. Actually, lots and lots of federal laws governing this, starting with the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

What happens when students do not receive the education they are legally entitled to? The school or school system is liable. They will get sued.

How will you address the fact that you will have tens of thousands of students that can and will sue the school district for having unqualified people fail to provide them with the free and appropriate education they are legally entitled to?

Yawn^10 wrote:

1. Spare us your diversity bull. Just because a certain demographic in Chicago doesn’t care about education means that the union should get a free pass

2. What you don’t realize is if these teachers has a choice between being fired or going to class, a vast majority would cave and show up to the building.

So yes, the solution is actually fire those who won’t return.

It's federal law. Not sure why you think it is bull.

I realize that we need more teachers and personnel, not less. Firing them causes less. I still don't quite understand what happens to all of these students whose teachers are fired. Say the vast majority do return in your scenario. Are we talking 80% return? 90%? 95%?

That still leaves lots and lots of unfilled positions. And as I've stated repeatedly, those unfilled positions and the lack of additional needed personnel and resources are the foundation upon which nearly all issues teachers deal with are built.

The US needs more unskilled labor, this may be the solution. Drop the working age to 14 and close the schools. They can work at McDonald's and get 20/hr, u want some fries with that?

Teachers would be more empowered with the return of capital punishment.

Screeching for no reason while Billy is trying to read a paragraph of Gulliver's Travels? A leather belt will put an end to it

Your interpretation of federal law and your focus on diversity is what’s bull.

Look at how many people caved to the vaccine mandates. Teachers will cave once their cushy pensions are in the line.

If I was working from home, and my boss said come in or you are fired, I’m coming in.

These teachers have had it too nice for too long. Let’s say 5% don’t return, then the classes are slightly more understaffed. It won’t make a difference

Speaking only for myself here, I have worked both in education and in the private sector. I worked some fairly solid places with some quite intelligent and hard-working people and we had your lazy bums as well. One of the most frequent misnomers is hard-working. What exactly does that mean? A movie like Office Space is timeless for a reason. Many places are rife with redundancy and many roles have inflated sense of importance.

I do feel myself wanting to go off on many tangents and cover the holes in both the thesis of dumping on educators and how to resolve the problem, but instead I’ll point out one obvious one that’s been brought up:

1) if the job is so cushy, why is there an educator shortage?

On the Chicago front, I may or may not work in one of those schools (puns all intended given the current state of things). I may not be a teacher but I may see enough of their work to have a sense of the gig. I may anecdotally know that many students at my particular school have either been very ill with Covid or had family members die. Colleagues may theoretically have been very sick and with a sub shortage, there just aren’t bodies to watch your kids. What is being asked for is just a temporary shift to remote learning for numbers to cool off and to set thresholds by which buildings could move to remote. Right now staff are asking to work remote and the mayor responded by cancelling school. This is little different than a snow day.

I don’t agree with a lot of the ideological shift that is espoused in certain corners of the media, and in schools, but there are so many damn honest and intelligent people working hard and against or in the midst of some of these outlandish takes. Politically this country might present itself at two extremes, but there are an awful lot of people who have not succumb to the erosion of nuance.

Outsider perspective can be very valuable, but you should step inside for at least a few moments before you decide you have all the answers. Essentially you’re no different than the person IN education who just keeps saying “well here’s what Norway does.” Yes, and what they do in schools is not independent of the overall culture of the people. Teachers may even be respected over there (and they are here too outside of certain loud voices) to an extent not seen in our great United States.

It is also quite obvious from most of these responses that the majority of people responding are clueless about the state of our public schools, what teachers actually do, how schools are funded, federal disability and civil laws that dictate how money is spent, what is taught, what is not taught, and how very little motivation the current generation of students and middle school students have.

If I am a fast food worker and I have a customer cuss me out, throw a chair at my face, and then spit at me.. there are consequences abs that customer is banned from that restaurant for likely life… enter public education where a middle or high school student can do all that to a teacher and then be back in said class with the same teacher the very next day… and throw another chair at the teacher, and come back the next day.. and repeat over and over. And you seriously have to wonder why subs or teachers do not want to report to work during Covid times when schools are short staffed and teachers are having to absorb an extra 20-30ish kids into their classrooms for zero extra pay.

six fan 77 wrote:

Are we still pretending teachers are selfless heros or has that facade worn off at this point?

What a pathetic group of teachers. Do your job

Wow, I don’t think I’ve ever seen that many words have such little meaning. Just pure word vomit.

But to the one question you asked- “if the job is so cushy, why is there an educator shortage?”

The only reason there is an educator shortage now is because they refuse to come into the office. Currently, Chicago teachers can just be replaced by YouTube videos.

Yawn^10 wrote:

Your interpretation of federal law and your focus on diversity is what’s bull.

Look at how many people caved to the vaccine mandates. Teachers will cave once their cushy pensions are in the line.

If I was working from home, and my boss said come in or you are fired, I’m coming in.

These teachers have had it too nice for too long. Let’s say 5% don’t return, then the classes are slightly more understaffed. It won’t make a difference

Not my interpretation. Local, state, and federal courts interpretation. You can denounce it all you want, but if you don't understand the law, the obligation it entails, and the ramifications that will occur if it's not fulfilled, you're just typing up things that make no sense.

Classes are already understaffed. Significantly. Special populations and STEM teachers are already in very short supply. It absolutely makes a difference. Fill every vacant role in every school system and increase the DIRE need for psychologists, counselors, exceptional education teachers, English learner teachers, parapros, bus drivers, and other essential support staff, and THEN these issues will begin being resolved. Not before.

You and the other poster can respond and repost the same silliness about firing people, but it's just that. Everyone involved with education, including the politicians making policy, all know no one will be fired over this because of the things I've posted and a multitude more.

My responses to your diatribes and entertainment of your ideas doesn't mean they're valid or have any merit whatsoever. It's just a minor (extremely) intellectual exercises while the snow falls outside.

I will conclude, however, that your ignorance concerning the subject is what causes so many additional issues. Parents spouting such nonsense at school board meetings and in principal and superintendent offices across the country simply increases teacher burnout and exacerbates the issues you rail about.

Very cyclical and sad process.

I always assumed people chose to be teachers in order to do the least amount of work possible and to get summers off so this isn't really too shocking to me. The kind of people who choose to teach are exactly the kind of people who will milk this COVID virtual learning thing to the very end in order to avoid going to work.

teachers voting liberal are too blame for that. just throw students like this out. fail the ones that cant behave. instead teachers vote for marxist policies where noone can be left behind. Teachers have to be social workers instead of teachers. But its by their own voting decisions.

its just another case of liberals (teachers) voting for feel good policies that dont work.

noglacierforyougfdgdf wrote:

teachers voting liberal are too blame for that. just throw students like this out. fail the ones that cant behave. instead teachers vote for marxist policies where noone can be left behind. Teachers have to be social workers instead of teachers. But its by their own voting decisions.

its just another case of liberals (teachers) voting for feel good policies that dont work.

Have you ever heard of the school-to-prison pipeline?

Since you're such a concerned citizen, would you mind addressing that and how you think the U.S. as a country can better serve the students that you want to be thrown out of these schools?

Are more prisons a more effective solution than more schools?

Inquiring minds want to know...

#1 Warden wrote:

noglacierforyougfdgdf wrote:

teachers voting liberal are too blame for that. just throw students like this out. fail the ones that cant behave. instead teachers vote for marxist policies where noone can be left behind. Teachers have to be social workers instead of teachers. But its by their own voting decisions.

its just another case of liberals (teachers) voting for feel good policies that dont work.

Have you ever heard of the school-to-prison pipeline?

Since you're such a concerned citizen, would you mind addressing that and how you think the U.S. as a country can better serve the students that you want to be thrown out of these schools?

Are more prisons a more effective solution than more schools?

Inquiring minds want to know...

if you throw out the hopeless cases you can provide better for all the others and actually progress the students. in the end you will have less people in prison as if you let a few apples spoil everyting. liberals just cant accept that some people are a lost cause and helping them is impossible. The best thing you can do is seperate them from the others. Instead they get to infect and destroy classes. but liberals are not able to make those "hard" decisions for the greater good. Instead they want to include everyone disregarding whether this is even beneficial for the majority.

noglacierforyougfdgdf wrote:

if you throw out the hopeless cases you can provide better for all the others and actually progress the students. in the end you will have less people in prison as if you let a few apples spoil everyting. liberals just cant accept that some people are a lost cause and helping them is impossible. The best thing you can do is seperate them from the others. Instead they get to infect and destroy classes. but liberals are not able to make those "hard" decisions for the greater good. Instead they want to include everyone disregarding whether this is even beneficial for the majority.

What defines a hopeless case to you?

Who should make the "hard" decision to label a child hopeless and send them off to the prison pipeline?

Also, how many "hopeless" cases would you deem acceptable?

#1 Warden wrote:

noglacierforyougfdgdf wrote:

if you throw out the hopeless cases you can provide better for all the others and actually progress the students. in the end you will have less people in prison as if you let a few apples spoil everyting. liberals just cant accept that some people are a lost cause and helping them is impossible. The best thing you can do is seperate them from the others. Instead they get to infect and destroy classes. but liberals are not able to make those "hard" decisions for the greater good. Instead they want to include everyone disregarding whether this is even beneficial for the majority.

What defines a hopeless case to you?

Who should make the "hard" decision to label a child hopeless and send them off to the prison pipeline?

Also, how many "hopeless" cases would you deem acceptable?

well that has to be tried out and its impossible for me to say from the outside. either way if teachers and the system dont do that parents will. They already do that by sending their kids to schools that are known to have a less problemtic student populations. so you again only increase segregation in the class room by letting anyone pass.

noglacierforyougfdgdf wrote:

its impossible for me to say from the outside. s.

Perfect answer.

Thanks.

The bad schools/the schools where teachers refuse to come to work will close. Other schools where teachers actually decide to come to work will pop up/stay in business.

If you need to have a special degree to teach this should change. Anyone should be able to teach children and then let the free market decide who “is qualified” I said earlier there needs to be a total revamping of the education system in this country- this could include federal law.

In Chicago children aren’t receiving the education they are entitled to due to teachers refusing to come to work. If you open the education system to the free market through the voucher system then parents will have more options of where they can send their children, especially in a situation like this. So in a voucher system if teachers at a school refuse to go into work like in Chicago then the parents can pull their vouchers (and thus the teachers salaries) and enroll their kids at another public school, charter school, Catholic school, etc.

Again, these Chicago teachers are not doing their jobs. If you give vouchers to parents they can send their kids to public schools (so get the same education they currently get) or alternatively if teachers throw a temper tantrum like they are in Chicago you can pull your voucher and send your child somewhere else, even temporarily, so a) parents can go to work during the day and b) children aren’t completely falling behind in their in-class education.