Road Racing & Training Thread: Week Ending 10/10/2021

Male, 28, 6’4”, 146 lbs

Recent Results: 5:15 mi, 10:19 3k, 17:46 5k, 30:05 5mi

Races: 11/21 Philly M ~ 2:50 goal

Mn - 10 @ 7:35s

Tu - AM: 5 @ 8:30s, PM: 4x2mi + WU/WD = 13

Wd - 10.75 @ 8:35s

Th - 7 @ 7:50s

Fr - 9 @ 7:45s

Sa - 22 @ 7:30s w/ 10 at 6:40s

Su - 8 @ 8:25s

Total - 85

Tu - 4x2mi with 2:30 rec, Paces: 6:02s 5:59s 6:01s 6:02s

Sa Race - 8.5 @ 7:50s WU, less than 15 min then, 10 @ 6:40s, 3.5 WD @ 8:45s

Wife - 80mi total, 4x3200 @ 12:40 12:37 12:32 12:21 w/ 2:30rec, Same LR as me but with the 10 at 6:30 pace

The highs and lows of training this week, started the week pretty beat up from the race+hilly 22miler the weekend prior. Still felt rough going into the 2 mi repeats but very happy with how they went, hung on with a club mate and ground them out. Definitely one of my top 3 runs of 2021, possibly went too hard because I felt pretty beat up the next few days. The 10 miler was a another major letdown. Was hoping to hit closer to 6:10-6:20s but after two miles at 6:20 I fell off quick. It is a fairly hilly race but I did manage to go sub 60 here in 2017 (as a goal race). I'm not looking forward to Philly Marathon, I do think I'd rather embarrass myself than postpone for the 3rd year in a row. Starting to think (hope) that I need to check my iron or B12 or something.

On a happier note, enjoyed watching Chicago marathon yesterday and checking results from Broadstreet & Chicago as they came in. Tracking Boston results now, will try to see it tonight on TV at 8PM. The wife is also killing it this build up, not sure how far under 3 she will go at Philly but hopefully low 2:50s.

-RS

A tough day at the office for Mrs. Stone. 3:32 finishing time. Digestive issues started early (before 15km) and she dry heaved a couple of times along the way. But it’s Boston and you come to finish the course. So she shut down the competitive side early and kept plugging along, taking a few breaks as needed.

She still finished smiling and happy to have experienced Boston again.

She has an entry to NYC in four weeks so we will see how recovery goes and decide if she’s going to do it.

Onward and upward…

Stone/Mrs Stone - So sorry to hear this. A valiant effort on her part. Things are not looking great for me. Foot got bad last week and I decided to shut it down. Been off since last Tuesday, and ran for the first time this morning. Better, but still had pain. Perhaps I should be looking ahead to spring…

Race Report

Sorry Coach Jeff I wish I could have posted something more inspiring, but here is my report. The Chicago Marathon was my first race in almost 18 months. I did manage to get a decent training cycle in, but between no races and workouts in the warm summer temps I did not have a good estimate of my potential. Assuming that the temperature would rise from race start to finish my expectation was a positive split. Target time would be in the 3:05 - 3:15 range. While waiting in the corral I noticed the 3:05 pacers, so I started chatting with them to find out their plan. Their target was even splits @7:03. OK, I thought. That sort of fit my plans of starting on pace for 3:05 and then gauge the effort and back off if it seemed too hard and/or HR being too high. Given that the GPS will track poorly with tall buildings I set my watch with an automatic splits for two mile and I would manually do the split at every mile marker. You can't go by the splits on Strava because the force them into 1mi increments. I have corrected the splits as best I could

The race starts and I stay at the back of the pack around the 3:05 pacer. I hang with the pack for the first 5k but it is feeling a little too fast. I missed the first mile marker and the auto lap goes off before the mile 2 marker so it is not until mile 3 that I have some idea of what my pace is. Seems these pacers are a little fast at th start.

Miles 1-2 6:50 avg

Mile 3 6:57 avg

Heart rate is a bit on the high side but since it is early in the race I decided I would wait a bit to see if it settles before making the final decision to back off. Before the 10k mark I decided I needed to fall off the 3:05 group and try to run 7:15-7:20 pace.

Mile 4 7:04 avg

Mile 5 7:05 avg

Mile 6 7:15 avg

I found it hard to back on the pace due being caught up with everything around me. I found that the pace was still faster than I wanted. Every time the split was something faster than 7:10 I would just say sh*t and hope the next split is more on target.

Mile 7 7:09 avg

Mile 8 7:09 avg

Mile 9 7:17 avg

I finally got the pace down and manage for a while and people begin to pass me. I did manage to catch up with a friend who started in the corral in front of me and had a few minutes head start. He was expecting to run close to 7:15, so I we ran together for several miles.

Mile 10 7:20 avg

Mile 11-12 7:13 avg

Mile 13 7:12 avg

Half Split 1:33:27

Add runner to 'My Runners'

Mile 14 7:16 avg

Mile 15 7:22 avg

Mile 16 7:34 avg

Mile 17 7:20 avg

At this point I am now start to pay the price of going out too fast for the conditions and begin to slow. I do find myself catching up with other that were with the 3:05 pace group and at least one from the 3:00 group. My friend pulled ahead of me and put 15 I did manage to put in some extra effort and picked up the pace with one mile left to go.

Mile 18 7:38 avg

Mile 19 7:28 avg

Mile 20 7:38 avg

Mile 21 7:46 avg

Mile 22 7:46 avg

Mile 23 7:56 avg

Mile 24 7:51 avg

Mile 25 7:55 avg

Mile 26.2 7:23 avg

Finish 3:13:49

Lessons learned, I overestimated my fitness and I think I would have been able to run something around 3:05 for this race if the conditions were better. Without any tuneup races I should have made a better effort to estimate my fitness from the workouts which most were done under similar conditions as the race. Although I was hoping for better fitness to arrive with the taper.

OR - That sucks!!! Hang in there man.

SI - Nice race report. I haven't run Chicago but I've heard about the nightmare's of GPS functionality on that course. Autosplitting miles is something I'd rather not worry about while running. This actually sounds like a perfect situation for the Stryd foot pod to measure distance (no I don't work for Stryd). You basically calibrate the distance at the track and it doesn't matter where you are running (including indoors) to get a really good distance/pace measurement.

The thing that jumped out at me the most was that you were concerned that your HR was too high in the first 3 miles and you thought you'd wait a few more miles to see if it settled. I've never personally used an HR monitor to guide my effort in a marathon race (that I remember??) but you probably know from training what HR is sustainable for you and what is not. I do wonder if setting an HR target in a marathon could be an advantage provided you only use it as a BS check before the late stages of the race where you want to be running harder. But really, if you suspect your HR is too high early in a race, it probably is, even without checking your watch. Comfort is paramount at that stage and for most of the race.

You did hit your target range of 3:05 to 3:15 so that's a win!

Hey SI,

But I am inspired. Everything you did made sense. You had a good plan with enough flexibility and you had the self-awareness to switch gears and not let it really get away from you. You had the mental toughness to stay on task even when you realized your body wasn't responding the way you'd hoped. And you did finish within your target range. Hell, that's not a bad day.

If I can have that kind of day, given injuries and covid restrictions, I'll take it.

What was your peak mileage this cycle?

As someone shooting for 3:15 your post was very helpful. I'm going to go out slow to be safe and be a loaded gun at 20, keeping a lot in reserve until the last 10k. It's tempting to go out fast but I see how it can affect you. Thank you for posting this; I empathize with you and your goal. Sorry it didn't work out but your report was VERY helpful!

As Jecht states, this is a very well done breakdown by SI. Although, I don't think it matters what your goal time is (assuming you have one). I think his experience is very relatable to probably any of us who have run a marathon and is an excellent refresher. I really like how he breaks it down. Write ups that communicate in this fashion are very useful.

Stone - Probably 80% of the people I tracked had a rough day, hopefully it didnt beat the Mrs up too much and she will be able to perform well at NYC

OR - How is that foot?

SI - nice write up & good job in the race even if you went out a little hot

RRR - solid week, nice quick 200s

Sub 6 - which marathon were you thinking? doesn't seem to be many good opportunities other than Boston, Grandmas and Pitt. I think my wife will do Run For the Red (Pocono Marathon) but It's kinda downhill and not very competitive so you might be running alone

darkwave - goodluck this weekend at the half

drcrusher - goodluck this weekend!

AverageForFun - goodluck at that marathon, that high mileage will pay off!

notarobot - You were moving in the 1000s, has to be a good sign

rrr - Congrats to your friend on the big PR.

YeshuaHaNozri- Nice quality long run.

Slow Miles, Slower Bests - Good luck at the 8k!

darkwave - Nice job getting some quality in despite the migraines and balance issues. I hope your PT can help you sort it out.

AverageForFun - Good luck at Columbus!

drcrusher - Good luck at your race. I hope you get good weather!

jmar227 - Those are some impressive long runs.

RunnerSam - Have you raced after doing that much warm up before? Considering your week and the fact that the race was part of your long run it looks like a solid effort.

Mrs. Stone - Sorry Boston didn't go as planned.

Still Improving - Nice report. Sorry you had a rough race. Compared to some other marathon race reports I've seen it looks like you managed the 2nd half very well.

Sam - thanks for the good wishes. I've decided I'm skipping Columbus. I just really don't want to start a large road race while dealing with these issues. It's one thing if I have a bad race; it's another thing if I'm wobbling all over the place and interfere with someone else's race. And running a large race with a congested start feeling this way is going to be miserable.

As for the bloodwork, I think that if you have some questions, it's never a bad idea to check.

Stone - thanks for the update. It was a hard day out there, and I'm sorry that Mrs. Stone wasn't able to show off her fitness.

Still Improving - thanks for the race report. I am not surprised that the pace group went out too fast - they always do, IME. I think it's because a) the pacers are very worried about going slower than the prescribed pace and b) the prescribed pace is easy for the pacers, making it easier for them to overshoot.

Chicago was a hard day for everyone - I think you did very well, especially after having been pulled out too fast.

BHV/RS - Thanks for the comments. The foot is better than what it was. The week off helped, but it still needs to improve if I am to have any shot at racing on Nov. 14. I am now taking pain medication (mostly ibuprofen) and I do so grudgingly and in desperation. Perhaps that is helping some, too. I have now run three days this week, and my plan is to run four, including tomorrow, and then take Sunday off. I actually wrote out a basic schedule that leads up to Nov. 14. A gradual increase in mileage and perhaps a couple of long runs, and then an abbreviated (one week) taper. Right now it is closer to a dream than anything else, but as Pete’s dad says in the film, Rudy, “Having dreams is what makes life toleable.”

This morning’s run felt decent. Foot was intermittently crabby…9.25 at 6:37 overall, finishing 6:20.9, 6:08.3, 6:12.9, 1:33.7. That will be my “long run” this week and I will shoot for 6.5 tomorrow morning before work…then baby the heck out of it on Sunday.

Speaking of Pete and such….I just love this scene. So real. So honest. So blue collar…and sooty/dirty.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh22Gi3EDDs

And this one. So starkly true. And the best double negative ever.

https://www.facebook.com/Steiner/videos/847179915406967/

Here is the second video. This one should work…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qoh3YkxuwVo

We need to get training discussions back going on this thread. For years it would run 8-10 pages a week…it’s been rather slow going these last few months and years

Technically Pete’s dad doesn’t say that in the movie as he’s never pictured. Pete is quoting his dad. Does anyone else think Pete has terrible running form? All the best on the foot, OR. The Rudy theme song is on my running playlist btw.

Stone/Mrs Stone: as someone who's been chewed up by Boston multiple times, I can sympathize -- sorry the day didn't go as hoped but glad she was able to finish (still in a decent time) and hope she's able to prove her fitness soon. Her workouts and results are always motivating to me as someone about the same age.

RunnerSam and notarobot, thanks for the good wishes. The weather is supposed to be *chefs kiss* pretty close to perfect tomorrow morning: clear, low 40s to start and essentially no wind, in the 50s by finish. Months of worry about something I can't control has paid off ;-)

drcrusher wrote:

RunnerSam and notarobot, thanks for the good wishes. The weather is supposed to be *chefs kiss* pretty close to perfect tomorrow morning: clear, low 40s to start and essentially no wind, in the 50s by finish. Months of worry about something I can't control has paid off ;-)

Good luck and have a great race! Also best wishes to Jecht at Columbus.h

Thank you friend. Fingers crossed

Thankyou