High School Cross Country teams with girls playing club soccer

Daughter is a standout CC and track athlete who also plays club soccer. It's a disaster. The CC/track coach is pretty accommodating, but the club soccer coach is not. Her CC team is good, not great and she's a major contributor. Her club soccer team is one of the best in the state and she's a solid starting player.

The CC coach has handled it well, giving her as much flexibility as needed so long as she can make the big races a priority. Not so much in soccer, which is the biggest time suck in all of sports. She's been given ultimatums, to which we told the soccer coach to pi$$ off and I've even suggested she quit given the recruiting interest she's getting in track. But what everyone seems to forget is that kids should play what they want and to hell with the selfish coaches. It's high school and no one is going pro. She has handled it better than Mom and Dad for sure and although she sprints from the CC finish line to soccer games, she would not have it any other way.

coach wrote:

A question for the parents of soccer playing kids: would your kid be allowed to miss a soccer game for a championship calibre meet?

Allowed? We don't ask permission, but are up front with the coach re: the big meets and any soccer conflicts. Same with the CC and track coach. As I said in the earlier post, soccer coach has given ultimatums, but does not follow through on them. She's still on the team. As an aside, I find it very strange that club soccer coaches think they can dictate to parents what other sports their child should not participate in and generally police how the child should live her sporting life. We pay their salaries via the club dues and the dues are not cheap. The title of my handle says it all.

Club Soccer is for Fools wrote:

coach wrote:

A question for the parents of soccer playing kids: would your kid be allowed to miss a soccer game for a championship calibre meet?

Allowed? We don't ask permission, but are up front with the coach re: the big meets and any soccer conflicts. Same with the CC and track coach. As I said in the earlier post, soccer coach has given ultimatums, but does not follow through on them. She's still on the team. As an aside, I find it very strange that club soccer coaches think they can dictate to parents what other sports their child should not participate in and generally police how the child should live her sporting life. We pay their salaries via the club dues and the dues are not cheap. The title of my handle says it all.

As I stated earlier I had a club soccer player on my team. I had no problem with her missing some of my practices and even a meaningless meet or two. Well, her club coach dictated to her parents and she ended up missing our championship because it conflicted with a soccer match that frankly wasn't important. She didn't run track and the girls didn't miss her.

Club Soccer is for Fools wrote:

As an aside, I find it very strange that club soccer coaches think they can dictate to parents what other sports their child should not participate in and generally police how the child should live her sporting life. We pay their salaries via the club dues and the dues are not cheap. The title of my handle says it all.

That attitude may be prevalent in soccer, but it's far from exclusive to them. We have XC coaches here saying something very similar. My daughter's dance studio was far more difficult to work with on this than the soccer club ever was. But they also get upset when the bun in your hair isn't right either. There are always going to be people/organizations on both sides. Personally, I can understand both sides and as long as everyone is upfront about it I don't have an issue with it. If the school XC coach told my daughter you need to be at 100% of practices she wouldn't be on the XC team because there is no reasonable way she could have handled it (the times don't even conflict but it would wear her out and leave too little time for homework). And she would have been perfectly happy in that situation too.

Eventually everyone has to choose a path to follow so it ultimately becomes a non-issue.

I've seen a thing or two wrote:

I coached 20+ years and I will not allow any athletes and attendance is mandatory 100% of the time unless there is a medial issue identified by a physician. There comes a time when student athletes have to make decisions. Varsity cross country and track or club sports. Experience has taught me if they are not there 100% of the time they will not value it as much as others. Mandatory attendance creates value. In the short term...yes we have had some GOOD freshman/sophmore athletes. But by the time they are juniors/seniors the other athletes pass them up as they are better developed.

If that is your philosophy, then you would have missed out on athletes like Katie Rainsberger (played soccer until junior year of high school), Galen Rupp ( "Galen was more serious about soccer until high school, when Salazar convinced the freshman to squeeze a few cross country practices and meets between his soccer commitments. Some good running results and an injury in soccer convinced Galen to make the switch to running full-time."), Emma Coburn (played club hockey), Erin Sullivan (2x Foot Locker Champion), etc.

Why be so arrogant as to miss out on potential stars?

They may not be going pro, but they maybe going to college and there's plenty of NAIA and D3 money to go around that is not athletic scholarships that college coaches can get their hands on to help athletes pay for school and those are the athletes I and many other high school coaches personally want to help out. Not the ones who the parents think their kid should be able to do what they want. If that's the case it's simple...get a whistle and get your own team. So when you say the XC coach handled it well....or is that just the way you wanted it handled? Sounds very short sighted and selfish to me.

it is wrong wrote:

After she graduated from HS I asked her if it would have bothered her if the soccer players ran and didn't attend practice even if she was a better runner and she would not have been threatened by them. She said that it would have bothered her a lot and she knows for a fact that some of her friends would have quit the team.

It's JMO but a coach that allows this is not doing the right thing even if the runners help the team. I still respect the HS coach a great deal because I know that he still does not allow it to happen.

I don't really understand this. If the extra athletes/soccer players are helping the team score higher why would anyone be opposed to it? Everyone does differing amounts of training anyway, I don't see why it matters what practice they attend as long as they are fit enough to race.

Why would it matter if she was a better runner or worse runner in terms of informing her opinion? Surely that shouldn't come into play at all, you can't change your opinion based on something like that otherwise it's just down to jealousy.

I can't imagine quitting the team over an issue like this. It would just show that people didn't care that much about it in the first place? I would want the best runners from the school on the team.

Why would people not want runners to help the team?

Consider this:

Today I assigned a tough but necessary mid season workout: 1.5 mile fast ascent on a steep rolling climb, then 2 x 3200 lt reps. It was hot. They’re starting to feel mid season fatigue. But they did it.

Now, Imagine it’s Saturday and I leave one of these badasses behind and take a soccer kid with the wrong kind of accidental talent.

Play that out for a few seasons. How will it affect your team culture?

In our state we have a statewide team loyalty rule in which an athlete can not miss a team practice or meet in favor of a club sport.

I am a rule follower.

Not club soccer but Addy Wiley plays varsity soccer for Huntington North while also running cross country there. She always has. That would probably be frowned upon usually but Wiley is, of course, an exceptional athlete all around and an elite distance runner. Scores over a goal and a half a game and has still run in every meet this year generally in the 18's. Has some system to maximize practices as much as she can for both sports. She freely admits she would almost certainly run faster times if she only did cross but she wants to play soccer and thats that. Coach isnt gonna argue with THE fastest miler in the country... And her thinking is it makes her a much better runner when cross/soccer season is over and she suddenly is able to concentrate on track alone. Some would worry about burning a kid out doing that but she said she comes into track with speed skills the other single sport runners havent been able to develop yet if they only ran cross and it shows in her times. I understand not everyone's daughter is Addison Wiley but still something to consider.

Respectfully, you sound like the selfish one. There is absolutely no need to pigeon-hole and punish young athletes who are multi-talented. Is it not long-sighted to allow a kid to play as many sports as possible while they can? All this specializing at such a young age is total BS IMO. Telling a 16 year old she can only play 1 sport? You can't seriously be in this camp? The cream is always going to rise to the top and yes, there is a point in time when an athlete must choose. This is usually in college when the institution is footing the bill. No sooner though. I would hope that if a girl who ran 2:13 in the 800 and had a wonderful, contagious team attitude showed up on your track, you would accept her even if she also loved to kick the pelota. Any coach who wouldn't would be ... uh ... short-sighted.

from the past wrote:

Consider this:

Today I assigned a tough but necessary mid season workout: 1.5 mile fast ascent on a steep rolling climb, then 2 x 3200 lt reps. It was hot. They’re starting to feel mid season fatigue. But they did it.

Now, Imagine it’s Saturday and I leave one of these badasses behind and take a soccer kid with the wrong kind of accidental talent.

Play that out for a few seasons. How will it affect your team culture?

Is it a competitive sport or not? Just because they are not doing your practice does not mean they are not practicing. I am a firm believer in hard work over talent. The reason those soccer kids are fast isn’t due to “talent”, it is due to practicing soccer from the time they are three. All those years sprinting up and down a field is the extent of most of their “talent”.

Respectfully....you are 100% correct that I am selfish and mine is based on experience and not impulsiveness from a parent who claims everybody else is wrong unless they get what they want.. I've taken many athletes and developed them by demanding they attend a practice with a purpose everyday and providing them with race experiences so they have the opportunity to earn lots of financial aid to various NAIA and D3 schools even if they were not elite athletes as freshman. It's not all about full athletic scholarships and in most cases the wrong way to go. Some of them stuck with the sport and are now high school coaches. And no that would not have happened if I continued to allow club athletes to come and go as they wanted. Many of these girls that moved onto the next level may have even quit in high school. So what really is the cream of the crop then? This is a debate that has been around for awhile and is not going away, but let's flip it. During high school soccer season should the soccer coach allow varsity athletes to miss for winter training, which is also "club" in the off season for many track/cross country teams in various states? Or to miss soccer games to go to all-comer meets or other indoor meets if their school does not have an indoor team? How about the basketball coach? Should they allow athletes to miss practices or games for winter track or indoor meets? Or what about almighty football? Yeah I know....these athletes should not be able to miss practice, because those are team sports. Yeah, yeah, yeah....but aren't they all varsity sports? Where's the equity? Obviously it's a varsity sport that you and many others do not value or fully understand. It sounds like all you care about is a scholarship anyway but that's another rabbit hole for you to post about on here. But before I wrap up here, let me give you a little insight on why your club coach gets pissed. He's pissed because he cares about that club's performance and he feels the best chance is if everyone attends regularly. Rather than blame him....maybe you should try and understand him. By not doing so would be selfish. See...there's that word again. And if you don't want to...spare him the misery and get him fired so you can get a coach that doesn't care and you get what you want. Isn't that what this is about anyway?

betting man wrote:

I cut out all of these deals with athletes as soon as I took over the team. Not fair to kids who actually show up every day to practice to have a part timer show up and take their spot on varsity. And then near the end of the season in the meets that really matter they will usually have some prior commitment anyways to their other sport. Wasn't worth the trouble. Occasionally I would let some soccer players run our home invitational in the open race just to get a time but they certainly weren't on the team.

Creates an overall poor team culture IMO.

I agree with all of this.

I would also add that as a coach, we shouldn't let kids do 2 or 3 simulataneous sports. I see the consequence all the time, the kids are stressed, they hate school, don't get enough sleep, start to hate one or both of the sports, etc.

It might seem like they can balance it at first, but it never ends well. If the parents can't be an adult, sometimes the coach needs to be. Betting man is right for all the reasons he listed, plus the its the right thing to do for that kid as well, even if they and their parents don't see it.

Great point, but I've got an answer to that. My philosophy evolved over the years because of club athletes not following through with commitments to the team or counted on with their reduced roles. I tried it and it didn't work. It's that simple. It did not happen with 1 athlete. Or 2 athletes. This happened over the years and probably to long. more to the story, but I coached to develop runners and yes I may have missed out on some great runners. But you know what, I don't even think about it. Neither do many other coaches I've spoken to over the years or at clinics I've attended when this topic comes up. Those club athletes may have also missed out on being great runners too. It goes both ways. Read my post above...no regrets. My philosophy is to develop runners. Not parade around stud club athletes. I don't need that type of validation, but some coaches do.

Good points! Bullseye on the being stressed part as there's a good chance some of these club athletes are taking multiple AP classes as well.

Club Soccer is for Fools wrote:

You sound like the selfish one. There is absolutely no need to pigeon-hole and punish young athletes who are multi-talented. Is it not long-sighted to allow a kid to play as many sports as possible while they can? All this specializing at such a young age is total BS IMO. Telling a 16 year old she can only play 1 sport? You can't seriously be in this camp?

16 year old should be allowed to do multiple sports. That is why the year is broken into seasons. If two overlap, then choose. Soccer overlaps with xc? Choose one. If they choose soccer, they can still run track in the spring.

I've seen this a million times. The kid handles it for a while. Then around junior or senior year, they start doing poorly in school, not sleeping, hate sports they used to love, etc. Whereas the kids who stick to one sport at a time can balance it and do better in the long term.

Are there exceptions? Yes. But they're pretty rare.

Learning to balance your commitments is a life skill. Sports is a great tool to learn this.

But what if so CAN handle it? I think it’s a case by case situation. I have an athlete my team that soccer is their first love and they have told me so. Very gifted runner and can be a top level runner in time. So if I say “pick one” then it will be soccer and they won’t run every again. I just don’t think that’s a smart policy to eliminate them from the sport. As a coach I can make it work so why not do it? Life isn’t fair and some athletes are gifted and can pull it off.

Here is a follow up question for all of the coaches who say they allow this practice:

Do you allow slow runners to do this as well or only soccer players who will be helping the team score?