Why is it "the runner's responsibility to know the course"?

Agree for the most part.

Most runners taking the race seriously will have looked at the route map, probably made a note of a hill or two if there are any that are significant, and maybe be aware of major landmarks that indicate a set distance (e.g. 'the top of hill X is 18 miles', or 'the hairpin where you double back marks the start of a net downhill to the finish'. But nobody recalls every turn, fork and corner in a full city marathon, unless they've ran it all before and the course never changed.

Having said that, there ought to be (perhaps there generally is, I'm not an RD) a difference between 1) someone who takes a wrong turn and can be seen by race officials to exactly retrace their steps to the course then continue - e.g. returns a few hundred yards after deviating at a fork in the route and 2) someone who deviates from it, then rejoins at another point even if not very far. The latter have to be DQ for consistency. The former should be safe from DQ but obviously they will be at a disadvantage.

Runners in events 3000m and longer and any XC or road race with hills, runners are on a razor edge between aerobic and anaerobic. When ascending hills, maybe anaerobic. Light-headed and suffering from lack of oxygen, I am supposed to make decisions regarding course directions? Ridiculous. I have been in the lead, made wrong turn more than once. Always told it was my error. When I show up at a road race, I am looking for hills, quality of the road and looking for a way to mark the course, 300m to go and 700m to go, not typical markings on most courses but important to me. I am not worried about which street to make a turn. That should not be my responsibility as a runner.

Clearly it's the RDs responsibility to make sure the race is clearly marked. However the sticky point is financial liability when it's not marked appropriately. The lead runner who traveled to get the race and is favored to win, doesn't because of a poorly marked race, is he owed compensation?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I do actually know every turn in the course in important races I've run, including marathons. By letting me run the shortest distance and take corners at full speed - and above all by letting me not think about it while I'm racing - it earns me a significant time advantage over competitors who are taking turns wide, slowing at turns as they search for road markers, and taking wrong turns. I've made it onto podiums (with prize money) I had no business being on just because I took the time to learn the course.

Race directors do have the responsibility to mark the course clearly, provide an accurate race map well in advance, and make sure the course as marked and run matches the race map. All of which I've seen get screwed up, repeatedly. In that case, it really is the RD's fault. Fortunately I've been able to adapt on the fly in those situations.

I've been in less funded races where the markings get worse and worse as the race go on. And they've been known to detour the course before with pylons and stuff.

I was in a marathon in 2019 and coming up to a parking lot at mile 22 or so and they didn't have any indication of where I should go or which path I should take after. I tried shouting out 'which flucking way?' I was furious. It didn't help that the next competitor was like a min or so behind.

I agree. I was led off course by the lead vehicle once In a Marathon.

Even if I knew that turn was wrong why would I go a different way than the lead vehicle? Maybe an electrical line was down or some other hazard was in the way and they had to re-route? Anyway, I’m o we it now but it costed me a potential win.

It's a dual responsibility. The course should be well marked and the runner needs to know the course. Both need to happen for the best chance of a successful race. Sometimes turn signs get blown over by wind or a bystander removes them. You need to know the turns anyways. It sucks, but when you get big gaps between runners in a small-medium sized or long race, especially if you're up front but not close enough to see the lead vehicle, you need to know the course. I've been DQ'd for getting off course before, while on PR pace. It sucks. It's a hard lesson. Now I drive courses, memorize them on google maps or do whatever I need to in the days before to know the course.

I did this in a xc meet back in high school

I think the route should be clear for the dumbest half blind idiot.

When running, our brains are usually distracted. We have fractions of a second to make a decision. We don't have time to 'think' where do I go.

In war, intelligent commanders know the foot soldiers can't think either. Hence, tunnel vision. We just lose peripheral vision and surrounding awareness. Units proceed in very simple manner usually straight ahead.

I view the signage as being for everyone except for the guy behind the lead vehicle. The QC Course mixes the 1/2 with the marathon. The leader should follow the lead vehicle, not the signage.

It should not be their responsibility when they are running half marathon or marathon and there might be dozens of turns and people are getting tired and all that. How could you reasonably expect someone to know all those turns. They should be well marked and obvious for even the most clueless. The big problems is neighborhoods and residents get whiny about street closures and too much signage, so the race organizers might have to take a more minimal approach.

I did a half marathon once where the only turn markings were tape or paint on the pavement going through identical looking neighborhood streets. They didn't even have readable signs to the side telling me which way to go. I would literally have to slow down at each intersection to figure out which way to go or ask the volunteer where to go. I was in no-mans-land behind the leaders and the volunteers would stare at me until I almost ran past the turn and yelled about which way to go. Taking multiple wrong turns in a race should not happen and it's the fault of the race organizers.

"knowing the course" is a pretty lazy argument of race directors. Especially in ultra trail races where that comes up a lot. If I sign up for a road marathon or a trail ultra, I pay for the course marking and I expect to easy follow the course. Of course mistakes and sabotage can happen especially on long trail courses. But the main idea should be that the course is well marked. Because it's a running race not an orienteering event.

Most races that say” it’s the runners responsibility…” don’t even have a course map available.

I'm a bit biased given that last year I was misled twice by lead vehicles/ race volunteers, but I absolutely agree that at some point if a race considers itself to be at a sub-elite level or higher it has to have contingency plans to pay out for misled racers. Yes, most competitive runners will check a course map, but if I'm flying from out of state and have never seen the course I may not be able to preview the full course at all. Race directors should go out of their way over marking a course and providing competent lead vehicles and course marshals. I've helped host a ton of high school XC meets so I know some people really need the fool-proof markings even when you wouldn't think they could get lost. I'll give my examples:

Last year I ran a local 5k during the 'wave start' era of Covid races coming back. Won my wave by a couple of minutes (very low competition). It was the first wave of the day and the lead bike obviously hadn't ridden the full course beforehand, which is ridiculous for a 5k. He misled me down a neighborhood street before we doubled back to the course and took the correct street. Added about 20 seconds to my time, ended up losing the race to a guy from the second wave by 4 seconds. I was upset but there wasn't prize money on the line so no big deal in the long run. I actually knew the guy that won so I just joke with him about how he really was second.

My second misleading came while visiting my grandparents out of state. I had never been to the town I ran in and decided to jump in a half marathon, partly because my grandpa wanted to watch me race. There was no lead vehicle because of some narrow double back sections of trail, so it was purely on course marshals to direct runners. Again this wasn't a very competitive race so I ended up in the lead by a minute or so at the halfway mark, where I took a wrong turn and ran about 400m down the wrong road. Eventually I got back on track (thanks to the meet director who was also course marshaling) and luckily the road I ran on paralleled the correct road so the distance was equal. In the end I won the race and would have set the course record by about two minutes, but understandably they couldn't give me the record. The race director took my watch GPS data and still counted my official time and credited the win to me. Again there was no prize money so no big deal. They were actually very helpful in giving me the official time so I could enter into some other races later in the year.

I think these two examples, both relatively large races, show why there needs to be a hard and fast rule. If I had been running for significant money I would be furious about losing out because of a lead bike or a poorly marked course. Really if a race is going to shell out a couple grand to the winner(s) then they need some sort of contingency. Either make the course stupidly simple, ensure lead vehicles have done the course beforehand, or over mark the hell out of it.

otter wrote:

I agree. I was led off course by the lead vehicle once In a Marathon.

Even if I knew that turn was wrong why would I go a different way than the lead vehicle? Maybe an electrical line was down or some other hazard was in the way and they had to re-route? Anyway, I’m o we it now but it costed me a potential win.

+1

Instructions from race officials in any form (official signage, gestures, verbal instructions, etc.) should be expected to supersede the runner's personal knowledge of the course. At a minimum, runners should be able to follow these instructions without fear of penalty.

What if the course needs to be rerouted due a safety issue or by request of local govt? What if the course map supplied to runners was inaccurate in some way?

The runner's responsibility for knowing the course should come into play in cases of non-existent, subtle, or damaged signage. It should supplement (not supersede) official direction.

I think a lot of RDs under estimate the amount of work involved in signage and just assume a quick drive round in a car with a few signs in the back and placing them at obvious spots will do the job. In fact, to do it properly is a major undertaking.

I've done the signage for our annual open race for several years and it takes a whole day to do it. We have a 5K, 10K and 20K race in a park and put up about 60 direction signs and 32 kilometer markers. The signs and markers are colour coded and match the bib colour for each race. Each direction sign has a unique number on the back which is used to locate it. There is a three ring binder with over 100 pages in it giving the details for each sign and marker along with some general maps showing the overall positioning of the signs. Each page has a description of the sign along with a map and a sketch or photo showing exactly where the sign must be placed. This helps visibility and consistency. In several cases races will follow the same bit of trail before coming to a fork with, say the 20K going right and the 10K going left. We put warning signs some 50 meters before the split to warn runners.

The kilometer markers are often harder to position as many of them are on forest trails. There we have to rely on unique trees and rocks to locate the spots. I am ashamed to say that because of this we really appreciate it when someone has carved their initials into a tree. We asked the park if we could put in surveyor nails at the side of the trail to mark the spots for future years but they refused. Instead we have been surreptitiously moving large rocks to locate the spots.

The first year I did this and saw the three ring binder I thought it was overkill but within a few hours I was thankful we had it.

When Ryan Hall got the half AR in Houston, he was so far ahead of the expected pace for the lead runners that he was on a collision course with the tail end of 5k field in downtown Houston. A quick thinking RD had the pace car and media truck zig instead of zagging to keep Hall off the part of the course that had the 5k runners. They had to go back and quietly remeasure the course to ratify the AR. Had Ryan Hall "known the course" he would have been DQed and lost out on the AR.

Another year at the Houston marathon, the police took a wrong turn about 1/3 through the marathon. The driver of the pace truck was screaming on the radio system trying to figure out whether he was supposed to follow the police or stay on course. The police did not respond. He decided to stay on the course and fortunately averted a total disaster.

The "know the course rule" is intended to keep runners from taking advantage of not paying attention and going off course. But it ends up penalizing runners who go off course because of RD incompetence. I have been an RD and there is no excuse for having runners make a wrong turn and go off course. It should never happen.

We are the consumers of the race. Organizers and volunteers are responsible for making the course and making it clear to the runners. Our responsibility is to pay, show up, and race within the rules. That's how I feel about it anyways, and I feel to say otherwise is to skirt the responsibility of the failure.

sub sub elite local hobby jogger wrote:

It should not be their responsibility when they are running half marathon or marathon and there might be dozens of turns and people are getting tired and all that. How could you reasonably expect someone to know all those turns. They should be well marked and obvious for even the most clueless.

Agree completely. I can't imagine memorizing the dozens of turns in a typical marathon or half-marathon, often held in a city I've never seen, and then being able to recall them properly in a state of exhaustion late in the race. "Know the course" may be reasonable in a local 5K with only a few turns. In a long race, no way.