Why are my easy runs so slow?(in relative to race pace)

Slow easiness wrote:

My PRs are 19:01, 39:12 for 5k and 10k respectively. According to what I've gathered, my easy pace is supposed to be in the vicinity of 8:00-8:30. However, I do most of them at around 9:00-9:30, sometimes even 10:00. For the past few weeks, I' tried to run them at the "correct" pace (i.e: right around 8:30), and I've been beaten down this week with pretty sore legs and now I have to revert to the usual 9:30-10:00. So, title says it all. why are my easy runs so slow? I know a guy with a slightly faster PR (18:30-ish 5k, 38:30-ish 10k), and he rarely goes slower than 8:00. What gives?

26, M, if that matters at all. (the guy I mentioned is also in his 20s)

Run it by feel. Don't worry about the watch or Strava kudos or any of that. The key is staying healthy and balanced.

Smoke your workouts and cruise on your EZ runs. Run without a watch too from time to time.

I've slowed my EZ runs down from 8:00-8:30 in 2019 to 9:10-9:40 in 2021, but because I'm pushing it in workouts and long runs, I was able to go from 35 mpw in 2019 or so to 55-60 mpw this year with no issues, plus I started training in February when I was overweight. Today I did 6 EZ at 9:00 pace by feel and it felt great, as I ran 14 miles at MP yesterday with a 2-mile cooldown.

Go slow in the summer base to go fast in the fall marathon.

As long as I am progressing in my workouts, I don't really care about the easy pace. Usually I tuck the clock inside the jacket on easy runs.

I recently ran 1:10 in a half-marathon and I rarely run below 8:00/mile on my easy runs. hard days hard, easy days easy

Slow easiness wrote:

My PRs are 19:01, 39:12 for 5k and 10k respectively. According to what I've gathered, my easy pace is supposed to be in the vicinity of 8:00-8:30. However, I do most of them at around 9:00-9:30, sometimes even 10:00. For the past few weeks, I' tried to run them at the "correct" pace (i.e: right around 8:30), and I've been beaten down this week with pretty sore legs and now I have to revert to the usual 9:30-10:00. So, title says it all. why are my easy runs so slow? I know a guy with a slightly faster PR (18:30-ish 5k, 38:30-ish 10k), and he rarely goes slower than 8:00. What gives?

26, M, if that matters at all. (the guy I mentioned is also in his 20s)

There are pro's that do their easy pace runs 2-3 minutes/mile slower than their marathon pace. I'm guessing, based on your PRs, that your marathon pace would be somewhere around 7:00/mile. That would mean easy runs in the vicinity of 9:00-10:00/mile wouldn't be crazy. If that's what works for you, go with it. Keep in mind it might be what works for you now. In the future, it could change. Sometimes with high mileage over the long haul, those easy paces can creep closer to your marathon pace. These paces can change over time and are not set in stone.

Either way, if it's what you body needs right now and it works for you, go with it. Because the alternative, which is trying to crush your easy days for a pointless strava flex, only to see the fatigue build and your performance crash when you do need to run fast, is counterproductive.

Slow easiness wrote:

My PRs are 19:01, 39:12 for 5k and 10k respectively. According to what I've gathered, my easy pace is supposed to be in the vicinity of 8:00-8:30. However, I do most of them at around 9:00-9:30, sometimes even 10:00. For the past few weeks, I' tried to run them at the "correct" pace (i.e: right around 8:30), and I've been beaten down this week with pretty sore legs and now I have to revert to the usual 9:30-10:00. So, title says it all. why are my easy runs so slow? I know a guy with a slightly faster PR (18:30-ish 5k, 38:30-ish 10k), and he rarely goes slower than 8:00. What gives?

26, M, if that matters at all. (the guy I mentioned is also in his 20s)

P.S. I was just reading an interview with Molly Seidel (Olympic Marathon, Bronze) and this subject came up. What she basically said (paraphrasing) was that she keeps her easy miles very slow. That allows her to run a lot of miles (130/week).

What makes you go faster? Running lots of miles. What's impossible to do, without lots of easy miles? Running lots of miles.

Keep your easy pace super slow (slow for you, not slow for your strava bro). Double your mileage over the next year. And one of these days you'll shock your strava bro by beating him in a race. He'll be shook ("How'd he do it? He runs so slow!")

"Of course I run slow," you'll tell him. "Just not at races."

You should listen to your body, some days you're going to feel a lot better than others. I also use to ask that question to myself. If your body feels tired on some easy days then don't look at your pace and just run what feels easiest, without sacrificing running mechanics (to prevent injury). On days that you feel better still run what feels easy, but make sure not to run to hard, I've fallen victim to this on to many occasions. Just always keep in mind, keep your easy days easy and hard days hard. Hope this helped!

I think it depends. The very slow easy days are important (some of the time) if you are running high miles. If you are not running high miles, running really slow on easy days might not be the best strategy. The good news is that you don't have to run the same pace every day.

I make a distinction between recovery days (very slow) and easy days (if you feel good, run "full of run" or finish fast.)

If you are running 2 workouts a week and 40 miles or less then there is definitely some room for moderately paced running in your plan if you feel good.

It guess the easy pace depends on how much you train a week.

A runner who has 6 training units a week, needs a different strategy as a runner with 12 training units a week. This influences the easy pace. As more units as lower than easy pace is for the athlete with the same level.

And doing the easy pace at 65% HRmax or at 75% Hrmax to name to intensities, is for sure not exactly the same stimulation for the body and brain.

Slow easiness wrote:

My PRs are 19:01, 39:12 for 5k and 10k respectively. According to what I've gathered, my easy pace is supposed to be in the vicinity of 8:00-8:30.

No. Your easy pace is supposed to be easy. If that's 9-10 pace, that's fine. Leave your watch at home if you need to. Get off strava. Bury your stupid pride. Easy means easy.

lexel wrote:

It guess the easy pace depends on how much you train a week.

A runner who has 6 training units a week, needs a different strategy as a runner with 12 training units a week. This influences the easy pace. As more units as lower than easy pace is for the athlete with the same level.

And doing the easy pace at 65% HRmax or at 75% Hrmax to name to intensities, is for sure not exactly the same stimulation for the body and brain.

You are confused. Easy pace is what *feels* easy based on the other stressors in the training week whatever they may be. You’ll find that most really fast guys are running very slow in between workouts because that’s what is required for the legs to safely recover. Heart rate is irrelevant if your legs are beat up or just tired and running 30-60 seconds faster on an easy day doesn’t mean shlt if you’re bombing the next workout because of it or getting injured from not giving yourself enough recovery time.

There are some (surprisingly) excellent responses to your question here. When I was young my times were similar to yours, about one minute faster and my easy runs were also very much slower than 'book' says it should be. An easy run is an easy run and it is time of your feet that counts. Everybodies easy pace different.

The great Australian marathoner Robert de Castilla used to do weekend runs with his club running 10 miles or so at 8-8:30 per mile. And he was a 2:07 marathoner.

Also, different paces train different aspects of the body so it is all good. Now that I am 68 I only run 25-30 miles a week and am much slower of course but my running is similar. I do not worry about pace on easy days. Although I do record it. I am very mathematically anal retentive (yes a nerd AND a geek)

shine box(go get it) wrote:

You are confused. Easy pace is what *feels* easy based on the other stressors in the training week whatever they may be. You’ll find that most really fast guys are running very slow in between workouts because that’s what is required for the legs to safely recover. Heart rate is irrelevant if your legs are beat up or just tired and running 30-60 seconds faster on an easy day doesn’t mean shlt if you’re bombing the next workout because of it or getting injured from not giving yourself enough recovery time.

I have a little bit the feeling the opposite is true with the confusion.

If heart rate is irrelevant because too low than it is a recovery jog and not an easy run. Just to losen the legs ....

But the topic is about easy runs and not recovery runs.

shine box(go get it) wrote:

You are confused. Easy pace is what *feels* easy based on the other stressors in the training week whatever they may be. You’ll find that most really fast guys are running very slow in between workouts because that’s what is required for the legs to safely recover. Heart rate is irrelevant if your legs are beat up or just tired and running 30-60 seconds faster on an easy day doesn’t mean shlt if you’re bombing the next workout because of it or getting injured from not giving yourself enough recovery time.

Not always true that the fast guys are running very slow between workouts. Bernard Lagat is a case in point. Much of his everyday mileage was 5:00-5:30 pace; recovery runs at 6:30 pace. He is a lower mileage runner (60ish per week.) Galen Rupp also ran relatively quickly on his everyday runs, and he is a higher mileage runner. If you look at what malmo was doing back in the day, there is a lot of just plain old moderate running in there.

I mean, sure, keep your easy days slow if you are feeling bad, but the pendulum has swung too far on this. If you are a 26 year old guy running 35 miles per week and you are feeling beat up by running 8 minute pace... I dunno. Are people really that fragile? Is recovery really so hard?

I guess I just find the dogmatism and the vehemence of the "run slow!" crowd to be tiring.

Slow easiness wrote:

My PRs are 19:01, 39:12 for 5k and 10k respectively. According to what I've gathered, my easy pace is supposed to be in the vicinity of 8:00-8:30. However, I do most of them at around 9:00-9:30, sometimes even 10:00. For the past few weeks, I' tried to run them at the "correct" pace (i.e: right around 8:30), and I've been beaten down this week with pretty sore legs and now I have to revert to the usual 9:30-10:00. So, title says it all. why are my easy runs so slow? I know a guy with a slightly faster PR (18:30-ish 5k, 38:30-ish 10k), and he rarely goes slower than 8:00. What gives?

26, M, if that matters at all. (the guy I mentioned is also in his 20s)

Focus on being ready for your workouts, tempo runs, and long runs. The days in between should be used to maintain aerobic fitness while allowing your legs to recover. Thus, there really is no such thing as "too slow", unless as others said you are running so slow that your mechanics get thrown out of whack and you start to risk injury. However, at 9 - 9:30 pace I doubt you are running into that problem.

For a good read on this topic, check out the old WeJo article "Why I Sucked in College". This sums it up pretty nicely:

Best of luck with your training.

Nope, you’re definitely confused and trying to make everything black and white. Easy and recovery runs are linked. If you’re talking about base - most are still doing a long run and tempo run at least. Everything in between is just what FEELS easy to the legs and is variable on a daily basis based on the other stressors in the week whether they’re volume or intensity based. Hope your approach is working out for you at any rate!

PRs aren't really relevant to this conversation. It's fine to use a calculator to get a general sense of your easy pace, but calculators provide training paces based on your estimated race pace in your current condition, given the current weather, terrain, etc. Not your PR.

well,, wrote:

OozmaKappa wrote:

Joshua Cheptegei does some of his easy runs at 10 min mile pace. If you ever feel like youre running too slow on the easy days, keep that in mind.

https://www.adventuresinrunning.info/blog/coaching-with-addy-ruiter

One run each week, not "some runs".

The article states that this program is relatively low mileage because of the difficult terrain. The lions share of the missing mileage would be done at an easy pace and I'd guess another extra run would be done at this super easy effort. Compare this with Desisa here.

Three runs per week 10k in an hour and several other easy runs of 12k in one hour. Not discussed here but I have heard during base training he runs even more volume and pretty much all of the miles 8+

It has already been stated a number of times in this tread that easy run pace does not mater as long as it it is easy.

However I would add that 'run' part is also important. Do you feel like you're doing more or less the same 'running' motion at 10 minutes per mile? You might be moving quite differently.

I personally distinguish 'easy runs' from 'recovery'. Easy runs may be longer than an hour, up to 90 minutes - right next to long runs, and the pace is more or less what Daniels shows in his VDOT calculator. Recovery runs, or maybe jogs, are to loosen my legs, they're very slow, yes maybe up to 10 minute miles if I'm super beat. I usually don't do that for over 5-6 miles, definitely staying under an hour unless becoming mega sluggish on an out-and-back route. BTW sometimes if under high training load my 'easy run' pace would slip down closer to jog, but it still feels different.

Anyway. You probably aren't doing anything wrong. First, at 40 mpw with 2 workouts you might not have the room for 'easy runs' as defined by me (or Daniels' VDOT calculator). Second, you might be 'running', not 'jogging' at 10 minute miles. So don't bother. Better make sure you do your workouts good.

Yes, nice post. It is easy, but it is still running. Back in the 80s when the performance of just your standard average Joe runner was *much* stronger than today, there wasn't this message about running slow all the time. Folks ran miles and they ran with purpose. They enjoyed feeling strong. They didn't see the body as a fragile thing.

The message to run slow is great for new runners who actually are fragile and out of shape. But if you want to get faster, run faster. The folks who race fast know how to take it easy, but they are also not afraid to rip an easy run if feeling good. You can fixate on a shakeout run that Cheptegei does and pretend it is the key to his training. The real key is that he gets after it. Yes, wejo got faster by taking it easier and running a TON of miles. Are you going to run a ton of miles? If not, then you need to get after it with pace.

Experiment of one: I tried running slower on my easy days for several years and I got slower and slower. I went back to the way I used to train, basically running with purpose on most days instead of jogging around, and I got leaner, stronger, and a lot faster. My workouts ALSO got better -- because I was aerobically strong.