Time to give up serious training? Done getting faster?

As a guy who has done this, 100 MPW for weeks just to be disappointed in a marathon, I will say this: it may or may not be worth it. I'm 36 now but still training hard though with less mileage. I've done 6 or 7 marathons and I can tell you the marathon is such a fickle race that all the training in the world can be undone by a high dew point, a side stitch at mile 18, dehydration, hilly course, and several other issues. Hell, just a mistimed taper is enough to run a race. Because you can only do 2-3 all out marathons a year, you end up putting in a lot of training for one race. In that regard it's not worth it. I'd estimate 1 out of 5 marathons is actually good and you spend years training hard for just that. If that sounds good, stick with the marathon.

Now, I like running and racing but don't want to put all of my eggs into one basket just to get disappointed and ticked off when race day happens to be 70 degrees and humid or I have a sore hammy going into the race. I'd rather do local 5K-half marathons and see progress. The marathon just doesn't have the return on investment for me and my goals as someone with a full time job and a life.

FYI. marathon progression:

2:59, 2:50, 2:29, 2:32, 2:34, 2:28, 2:34

Started doing 100 MPW for 14 week training block before running 2:29. Increased more and only got worse until I wore super shoes and had a decent day and ran 2:28.

Thanks for the perspective. I don't think I can fathom another training cycle like the past one only to go home without a good result. I can imagine that 2:32 was a rough one after a 2:29 the previous race.

I like the idea of using intermediary races in between marathons as opportunities for good races. Might be the route I go going forward.

I think your 5k and 10k are a bit faster than I could've run when fit, but I ran 2:29, so your target of 2:37 seems slow.

I have no idea about your preparation but I see lots of people overdoing it in training and being cooked on race day. I've done it myself, targeting 2:30 for the first time and completely blowing up. I feel like now I've learnt to modulate my training well and tend to err on the side of underdoing it.

5k and 10k trials would indicate your potential but not if were actually ready for 26.2. Better indicator would have been a half marathon 15sec/mi faster than MP. Another one would be 16mi at MP. Another would be 20mi at MP +10sec/mi.

I see a lot of guys putting in big mileage but not enough specific marathon work.

You just had a bad day. If you time trialed 15:30 5K, 2:37 should have been definitely doable w/ the mileage you put in. People run 2:30 with that kind of speed. How was the weather at the race?

Appreciate the feedback. Yeah, I know I was significantly more fit than the previous cycle. Just not my day I guess. It's good to hear that there still might be more left in the tank. Weather couldn't have been much a factor (around 60 degrees with little wind).

It's just one race. After every marathon, I sit down and write a recap of the race, my whole training cycle, what I think went well and what didn't. I save those. After you run enough races, you can look back and eventually something will pop out as to why the race was a little slower. There's always something you can improve. There are always conditions and courses better than the one you last raced.

One day you'll look back and be in awe that you were able to even 2:45 or faster. At your age of 31, you've got faster days ahead.

Also, I agree with interspersing 5K's, 10K's and half marathon between marathons. It not only keeps it more fun and interesting, you'll be able to gauge your coming fitness, better than a lonely time trial.

Would you like another approach where we don`t count mileage and only run what`s enough to back up the necessary perfect individually calibrated workouts to reach our goals? A less time consuming method but extremely effective .

You are welcome to the magic world of running by J.S. :)

Anything that gets me to the finish line faster I guess?

aksmooove wrote:

Anything that gets me to the finish line faster I guess?

JS is a horrible coach and has had really bad results with marathoners.

If you decide to be coached by him make sure to start a thread for us to follow. I love popcorn.

Keep at it. You're making great progress and it takes more than like 4-5 years to peak. And you don't need that much mileage, that gets tedious and takes the fun out of it. 80 would be better.

One strategy I adopted was to DNS a race if the weather was bad (hot) and have a backup plan for a week later. Bailed on Chicago twice and ran Columbus the following weekends -- perfect! Didn't waste the training, hit the times I was after, had fun and competitive success. Some of the purists scorned that ("it's the same for everybody, just go out and race," etc. etc.) , but I wanted, and got, a return on my investment.

FYI my progression:

3:36, 2:52, 2:39 (started focusing on ultras), 2:29, 2:21 over a period of 8 years

For me the focus on ultras and the experience of longer races (plus lots of extremepy slow running) really helped my marathon times. After switching to ultras and I basically only ran marathons when I felt my PB was super outdated and I wanted to give a number to my new fitness. 2:29 was an okay day (could have run 2:27 in better weather), 2:21 a pretty good day.

Interesting. I've never thought about it that way. Is it more that the heavy mileage needed for ultras improved overall fitness for the marathon? Did you start with 50K and take it from there? Genuinely curious.

It wasn't really planned, just happened. Started racing a 50k on the road but that's basically just a longer marathon. Then road 100Ks and trail races (most in the 50k to 50 mi range). I enjoyed the different focus. And just noticed I was getting extremely fit. I did keep up speed work and just focused on really long runs and vert for the last two months before ultra races. But specific zero marathon workouts.

Raced the last two (fastest) marathons as preparation for ultras later in the cycle and I believe it helped that these (marathon) races were not the only thing that counted. So very easy mentally to just see what I got that day.

What was the weather like for your marathon? What was the course like?

You're far from your peak at age 31 for 26.2 with recent 15:30/32:00 time trials. 32-flat is a little stronger than the 5k so that says you have some endurance. You logged good mileage and I assume good workouts. Daniels gives your 10k a 1:10 half & 2:27 full. You should be able to break 2:40 on a bad day. I'm guessing the bonk has to do with not getting enough calories in.

Maybe find a small town marathon and/or a loop course where you can get bottles/gels from family exactly where you need it. I know you're disappointed but you're going to be even more disappointed not giving it another go when you can break 2:30 one day.

Race in cooler conditions. Get in more calories. You can defend against a bonk like that. Maybe you had a day where the dew point was on the higher side and you still went out at current fitness instead of fitness for the day. I would stick with it and be intentional about when to race next.

As someone who is going for his second marathon, this is interesting. I will probably do this one, shoot for a BQ and maybe a few more, but if I don't get it, I'll drop down to 5k-13.1 and get faster. I appreciate the well-thought-out post, no sarcasm.

Emily Swatson wrote:

aksmooove wrote:

Anything that gets me to the finish line faster I guess?

JS is a horrible coach and has had really bad results with marathoners.

If you decide to be coached by him make sure to start a thread for us to follow. I love popcorn.

YEAHH! Hahaha! Very,very bad results ! Only two winners of Valencia and Nice Cannes marathons with times 2:07:38 and 2:10:45 ))......then one at debut marathon 2:10 and second marathon 2:08 ......and then a fourth place in Eindhoven and 2:09 .....then a debut lady marathon at 2:26 !......also a third place in Kisumo marathon in Kenya and 2:14 ( winner 2:13 ).....yes, the list of my bad coaching is quite long, hahaha! ))

- Get you some world class online coaching! - :)

"I'd estimate 1 out of 5 marathons is actually good." Only if you suck at the marathon or have extremely bad luck.

For me, no need to estimate. 33 out of 36 have been good. Chicago 2007 and Boston 2012 were not so good, because too darned hot, and I bonked in my first serious attempt at sub3. Otherwise, all good, and well worth the training -- which is its own reward anyway.