Less than 2 minutes left. Toledo has the ball 3rd and 2 at the Notre Dame 26 yard line. Down by 2. ND has zero timeouts left.
Toledos runs a clever QB sneak but the QB ran it in for a TD. If he just kneels it at like the 1 the game is over, right? I mean they would still have to kick the field goal but there would have been hardly any time. Instead Notre Dame had 1:51 and easily scored.
Yes, the coach made a bad decision as the strategy should have been to get close to the end zone and then run the clock down as low as possible and then kick a field goal. The run gave them the opportunity to do just this, and the probability of winning if they had done as you say would have been much higher than stupidly running in for a score.
rojo wrote:
Less than 2 minutes left. Toledo has the ball 3rd and 2 at the Notre Dame 26 yard line. Down by 2. ND has zero timeouts left.
Toledos runs a clever QB sneak but the QB ran it in for a TD. If he just kneels it at like the 1 the game is over, right? I mean they would still have to kick the field goal but there would have been hardly any time. Instead Notre Dame had 1:51 and easily scored.
Generally I agree, but relying on college kickers to win a game is going to make you old very fast.
Ofa lon teh
I beets on the over nd i ween!
llort_vbo wrote:
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Generally I agree, but relying on college kickers to win a game is going to make you old very fast.
Watching it live, I was thinking, "No way would I settle for a 40 yarder." But if he kneels on the 2 yard line....
regardless, this proves Notre Dame has no business being ranked #8
DC guy wrote:
regardless, this proves Notre Dame has no business being ranked #8
Week 1: Ranked #9 - Struggle to beat an unranked Florida State team by three points in overtime, 41-38. Move up to #8
Week 2: Ranked #8 - Favored to win by 16.5, struggle to beat unranked Toledo by three points by scoring with one minute to go.
My guess is they will move up to at least #7 after Ohio State lost. It depends on how much the wealthy donors from Notre Dame influence the voters.
Basically this same situation happened in the super bowl with the Giants and Patriots about ten years ago.
Leprechaun Losers wrote:
DC guy wrote:
regardless, this proves Notre Dame has no business being ranked #8
Week 1: Ranked #9 - Struggle to beat an unranked Florida State team by three points in overtime, 41-38. Move up to #8
Week 2: Ranked #8 - Favored to win by 16.5, struggle to beat unranked Toledo by three points by scoring with one minute to go.
My guess is they will move up to at least #7 after Ohio State lost. It depends on how much the wealthy donors from Notre Dame influence the voters.
ND, like the PAC 12, are overrated and overhyped by the media. Look at the past NCAA champs.
Iowa and Oregon will jump them. ND will be 9.
big bop wrote:
Iowa and Oregon will jump them. ND will be 9.
Penn State should jump them too after beating a previously undefeated team today.
this isn't so cut and dry, as chip shot FG % isn't gonna hold up with a kicker (and holder and center) under pressure and a defense desperate for a block.
Odds of an offense scoring a TD in 1:51 aren't so high unless you drop your coverage back and give them a series of easy first downs. Defenses are really stupid like that - force them to throw downfield instead and make their desperation cost them.
Yeah classic conundrum.
9/10 times the QB needs to go down at the 1 - you have 3 shots at running it in and at worse you ask your kicker to kick a chip shot from what 24-26 yards max? I mean you have to take those odds.
Other school of thought as someone mentioned is relying on a college kicker (even a pro these days) to kick even a chip-shot is unfortunately very dicey and so you never give up guaranteed points. Take what's on offer and trust your defense.
I personally don't have an issue taking the points because going 70-80 yards with no timeouts and 1.51 left is pretty tough and the odds are really against you. Of course then up step "genius" defensive coordinators/head coaches who then play prevent defense, bring no pressure and allow even average QB's (pro and college) and their receivers any and everything over the middle of the field between 10 and 20 yards. Surprisingly easy to drive 80 yards and throw a score when you are basically playing practice scrimmage reps.
So with that being said, just take the friggin knee and let your kicker do what he's there for.
kartelite wrote:
Yes, the coach made a bad decision as the strategy should have been to get close to the end zone and then run the clock down as low as possible and then kick a field goal. The run gave them the opportunity to do just this, and the probability of winning if they had done as you say would have been much higher than stupidly running in for a score.
It seems to be a player error not a coaching error.
Bad Wigins wrote:
this isn't so cut and dry, as chip shot FG % isn't gonna hold up with a kicker (and holder and center) under pressure and a defense desperate for a block.
Odds of an offense scoring a TD in 1:51 aren't so high unless you drop your coverage back and give them a series of easy first downs. Defenses are really stupid like that - force them to throw downfield instead and make their desperation cost them.
It is cut and dry. The odds are decisively more favorable if you kneel and kick.
But the problem is the public in general, along with the media. It's the world in reverse. There is very little scrutiny and criticism if you score the touchdown then blow the game, as Toledo did. If you utilize the correct strategy and then botch the field goal, there would be an avalanche of condemnation.
I can't figure out if ND is just not a good team or they play to the level of their competition.
malmo wrote:
kartelite wrote:
Yes, the coach made a bad decision as the strategy should have been to get close to the end zone and then run the clock down as low as possible and then kick a field goal. The run gave them the opportunity to do just this, and the probability of winning if they had done as you say would have been much higher than stupidly running in for a score.
It seems to be a player error not a coaching error.
The coaching caused the Toledo defense to allow a touchdown just 26 seconds later......
stan the corgi wrote:
I can't figure out if ND is just not a good team or they play to the level of their competition.
ND beat FSU last week in OT. FSU lost to FBS Jacksonville St. yesterday.
This shouldn't be hard to figure out.
stan the corgi wrote:
I can't figure out if ND is just not a good team or they play to the level of their competition.
I don't think they are good. Did you see what FSU did this week?
They lost to a I-AA team. I've never played organized football and would have had a better defense in on the last play.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/32193926/florida-state-mike-norvell-calls-loss-jacksonville-state-totally-unacceptableAwsi Dooger wrote:
It is cut and dry. The odds are decisively more favorable if you kneel and kick.
Where's the proof of this?
That proof can't just be chip shot %'s compared to no-huddle drives vs deep coverage. Let's see what happens when the opponent actually covers every route. They never do.
It should be easier to stop those drives cold, knowing they're not gonna run and have no plan. Your safeties will do their job, keep your LB's up close, snuff them on downs.