Warholm runs 45.51... with no hurdles

Deanouk wrote:

juvie wrote:

Edwin Moses’ flat 400 Pb was 45.60

He also ran a 44.1 relay leg, so he was certainly capable of sub 45 for an open 400m if he'd chosen to race a few serious ones at peak of season.

Exactly. How many people conveniently miss tat for a 400H runner, they rarely run a 400 flat when they are at their peak. That is when they are running 400H races. There's little doubt Warholm could run 44-low at least.

Everyone's looking tired if you watched the entire meet.

He is probably a 44.x guy in better form.

seasoned ranker wrote:

I’m old enough to remember idiots claiming he could run sub 43.

45.94 over hurdles --- this is clearly equivalent to a sub 44.00 flat race.

The Unkle wrote:

seasoned ranker wrote:

I’m old enough to remember idiots claiming he could run sub 43.

45.94 over hurdles --- this is clearly equivalent to a sub 44.00 flat race.

Just because two things line up in the point tables (or your arbitrary model) does not mean the same person can do both

Karma Police wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

He also ran a 44.1 relay leg, so he was certainly capable of sub 45 for an open 400m if he'd chosen to race a few serious ones at peak of season.

Exactly. How many people conveniently miss tat for a 400H runner, they rarely run a 400 flat when they are at their peak. That is when they are running 400H races. There's little doubt Warholm could run 44-low at least.

One can add to the above that Moses stated that he tried to avoid running 400 flat in fear of getting injured.

Skirocer wrote:

The Clown Show wrote:

Yikes. I'm guessing you did not enjoy his Olympic performance.

I enjoyed the 400mh race. What I did not appreciate was people equating his 45.94 to a sub 43 in the open 400. There were people using crude conversions thinking that it would apply to the best hurdler in the world.

Agree. Where does this 3s extra with hurdles come from?

110m hurdles are more like 2s extra considering the extra distance.

There are ten hurdles in both events.

The hurdles in 110m are significantly higher.

The 110m hurdles is also a faster event.

You could certainly make an argument that the difference should be less than for a 400mh runner at olympic level than a 110mh runner. Maybe even less than 2s.

I think Warholm can go sub 45 but not much faster. Maybe 44 mids. He is probably the slowest 400m runner of the medalists.

Warholm strenghts are his extreme determination and zeal.

Great technique and stamina.

Compared to an average person he is very fast but I doubt that you find many people running below 45 with his talent for speed.

Speed over 60 wrote:

A great 400 hurdler should Never fade in the stretch ! Gold medal hangover.

Agreed.

The average of world class hurdlers is about 2 seconds. Warholm ran 44 when his hurdle PR was 47. He has probably improved his hurdle technique more than he has improved his actual 400. But if he was 3 seconds slower over hurdles then, it would make sense that he would be at least 2 seconds now. I am guessing that he would have only run 47 over hurdles yesterday. Muhammad ran 3 seconds slower than her Olympic time yesterday. She probably wouldn't have run her 400 hurdle time in a flat 400 yesterday. What would that have don to some of your silly assumptions? Did anyone watch the 800 yesterday? Are the guys who ran 1:45 now only capable of 1:45 even though they have run 1:42?

Bad Wigins wrote:

This just means the Warthog doesn't have the leg speed turnover to get to sub 45.

Hurdlers have to massively exaggerate their range of motion at the expense of turnover and I guess you can't expect them to adjust that for a flat event.

Just goes to show the inherent silliness of hurdle events. Having to jump over stuff when running is pretty rare, why make it a specialty?

Running flat out on a smooth even bouncy surface for a pre-determined distance with nothing more than a couple of gentle turns is also pretty rare outside track meets and preparing for such track meets.

Ain't 1857 wrote:

The 400 is a different animal.Intermediate hurdlers don't have the

leg speed to be great quarter milers,that's why they take up hurdling.

The 400 hurdle is a speed rhythm event whereas the 400 is a speed strength event.

The greatest intermediate hurdler Edwin Moses at his peak couldn't break 45 for

the flat 400.Warholm at best is a 44.5 to 45 qtr miler.

LPD has a point until Hemery's breakthrough in 68' the event was run in a slower middle distance style race. Aside from the rare Kevin Young freak type most of the competitors look like mediocre 400 meter runners.

Note on the women's side it's more obvious as Privalova took up the event at around age 30 and in a few short years was an Olympic champion. That's not happening if the event is deep with talent.

Karma Police wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

He also ran a 44.1 relay leg, so he was certainly capable of sub 45 for an open 400m if he'd chosen to race a few serious ones at peak of season.

Exactly. How many people conveniently miss tat for a 400H runner, they rarely run a 400 flat when they are at their peak. That is when they are running 400H races. There's little doubt Warholm could run 44-low at least.

UCLA Bruin Henry Thomas wasn't cruising much in the 44s despite amazing speed, exceptional relay splits, speed endurance and a focus on the 400

Running fast relay splits doesn't always equate to fast open times.

Alan Johnson ran a 4x4 leg in the '87 WCs.

Should he have moved to the 400 intermediates because he could run a fast lap for a high hurdler?

Of course, maybe he should have even dropped the hurdles all together and concentrated on running 45s.

^^ alan johnson was obviously in the '97 WCs

NYDCRunner1 wrote:

Deanouk wrote:

He also ran a 44.1 relay leg, so he was certainly capable of sub 45 for an open 400m if he'd chosen to race a few serious ones at peak of season.

Felix had a 47 or some ridiculous split for a relay leg. Has she ever run faster than 49.2? Some of you come up with the most illogical statements...

Nonsense. The normal conversion from relay split to 400m open is between 0.5 and 0.7 secs.

Alison Felix's fastest ever split is 48.0, and her pb 49.2. All that means is that she runs a better 400m with a baton in her hand. The meet Kratochvilova ran 47.99 for the World Champs open race, she also recorded a 47.75 relay split.

Koch's fastest ever relay split is also 47.7, 0.1 secs slower than her open best.

Sanya Ross's fastest ever relay split from 2009 is 48.4 in the Berlin World Champs. She won the open there in 49.0, and her fastest of the season was 48.83.

So, the 0.5 - 0.7secs conversion looks pretty good to me.

If Moses ran a 44.1 relay then he was in something like 44.6 -44.8 open shape.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Oh I know. I think he can run low 44s maybe high 43s. I'd say you could chalk up .5 to conditions today, which still makes for a mediocre effort for Warholm.

This plus.

I think a lot of the stars are burned. Look at D M, she ran 53 someting.

Allyson ran a 47.72 relay leg in the 2015 world championships in Beijing and jarmila has also split a 47.6 relay leg back in her days.

Deanouk wrote:

NYDCRunner1 wrote:

Felix had a 47 or some ridiculous split for a relay leg. Has she ever run faster than 49.2? Some of you come up with the most illogical statements...

Nonsense. The normal conversion from relay split to 400m open is between 0.5 and 0.7 secs.

Alison Felix's fastest ever split is 48.0, and her pb 49.2. All that means is that she runs a better 400m with a baton in her hand. The meet Kratochvilova ran 47.99 for the World Champs open race, she also recorded a 47.75 relay split.

Koch's fastest ever relay split is also 47.7, 0.1 secs slower than her open best.

Sanya Ross's fastest ever relay split from 2009 is 48.4 in the Berlin World Champs. She won the open there in 49.0, and her fastest of the season was 48.83.

So, the 0.5 - 0.7secs conversion looks pretty good to me.

If Moses ran a 44.1 relay then he was in something like 44.6 -44.8 open shape.

The fastest <48 relay splits:

47.6 Jarmila Kratochvílová TCH 4 Athens 1982

47.70 Marita Koch GDR 4 Erfurt 1984

47.75 Jarmila Kratochvílová TCH 4 Helsinki 1983

47.80 Olga Bryzgina URS 4 Seoul 1988

47.8 Jarmila Kratochvílová TCH 4 London 1983

47.82 Olga Nazarova II URS 2 Seoul 1988

47.9 Marita Koch GDR 4 Athens 1982

47.9 Marita Koch GDR 4 Canberra 1985

47.9 Jarmila Kratochvílová TCH 4 Frankfurt 1981

47.9 Jarmila Kratochvílová TCH 4 Pescara 1981

Deanouk wrote:

If Moses ran a 44.1 relay then he was in something like 44.6 -44.8 open shape.

His PB is 45.6. I don’t want to hear about relay splits because they are so variable - quality of handoff, where in the zone?, speed at handoff.

His 400mH PB is equivalent to a 43.56 400m. We know he could not run that. As to what he could run if he spent some time specializing - it’s pure speculation.

wejo wrote:

Coming off his crazy 45.94 in the hurdles at the Olympics many expected big things from Karsten Warholm in the 400m flat race today but he was only able to run 45.51 with no barriers.

Wonder if he would have run faster if they put up a couple of barriers for him.;)

Warholm holds the WR for the lowest difference between hurdles and no hurdles.

He just gets over the hurdles better than anyone.

Damn on that 2nd or 3rd hurdle I swear it seemed like he went over it like it wasn't even there and it seemed that he didn't even lose any momentum.

Yeah he could probably run 43.90 in the 400 open right now under the same Tokyo heat and humidity.

You need HEAT to run fast. It's like wow. Why do so many people not realize that here?

What was the temp in Lusanne?

I don't think he could go much below 43.90 even if he did hit 43.90. And Wariner has run 43.45 so it's like whatever. Wariner is still a better 400 runner than Warholm.

And yeah the 400H is a weak event because all of the worlds top 400 runners historically have run the 400 and not the 400H over the past 100 years.

So of course this would be an event that Warholm did good in.

And I now have to update my current thinking of what Niekerk could do in the 400 hurdles if he was taller and focused in on it. I'm thinking that Niekerk could do a 44.90 in the 400H.

Damn you just listed so many steroid users here that it's pretty funny and deluded to think that any of those times even count.

What you just said there is like watching a fan from the steroid infested powerlifting world tell us that someone just deadlifted 745 to 1050 pounds.

It's fake. Doesn't count.