mental aspect

ice cream scoop wrote:

Over my head? wrote:

I spoke with him today and he agreed to try a new race strategy this weekend.

It’s not a race strategy issue. It’s an expectation issue. The kid expects himself to do better than he actually does. He falls apart when he doesn’t meet expectations.

He will form new expectations with the new strategy and likely fall apart because the new strategy won’t miraculously work.

Have him plan for where he is, not where he “should be”. Have him visualize his typical race and including the pain and getting passed and make a plan to overcome the tough parts.

I often compare text anxiety to race anxiety, and say they both boil down to confidence. Thanks for the input.

fisky wrote:

I'm not a coach, but I have a suggestion.

Your team probably has slower runners. Pick one who is consistent at pacing and maybe 20 seconds slower than this guy. Let's call this guy Joe. Tell your runner to run behind Joe for the first mile, then say, "Thanks, Joe" and pass him.

If Joe is only 10 seconds slower, then have him follow Joe to the halfway mark. Find that mark on the course and tell him, "Do not pass before here."

Tell the kid that if he doesn't follow your rule, he won't get to race the next week.

His mantra while following the other runner should be something like, "Relax. My race hasn't started yet. Relax. Relax. You are saving your energy, my race hasn't started yet."

We are trying something similar. He is close to breaking 18:00, but goes out at 5:30ish for the first mile. He is going to try to do mile 1 in 6:00, then 5:50, then 5:40. With a good kick, he should be just under 18:00.

I should add that the only kid who is good at pacing is a full minute slower. Otherwise, I would try to employ your strategy. All of our top guys are horrible at pacing, like most HS runners. I am trying to break this habit with pacing workouts, making them hit a certain pace so many times before they can call it a day. They did twice the number yesterday before making the mark.

Over my head? wrote:

I should add that the only kid who is good at pacing is a full minute slower. Otherwise, I would try to employ your strategy. All of our top guys are horrible at pacing, like most HS runners. I am trying to break this habit with pacing workouts, making them hit a certain pace so many times before they can call it a day. They did twice the number yesterday before making the mark.

To help me learn to pace, I used the interval timer on my watch to beep at the desired time every 100m when running intervals on the track. For example, 22 seconds would be a 5:52 pace. Before my race, I would warm up and then do 100m strides until I hit my desired pace. It would usually only take two strides to dial it in. A Tabata timer on a smartphone would do the same countdown beep if he doesn't have a watch with an interval timer.

Or you could give the pace time with a whistle.

Can the kid hit times in practice?

If he can hit practice times, tell him he's training through his next race. Tell him you aren't concerned with his place. Give him specific times to hit each mile and be there with a watch. Take the race anxiety away.

ice cream scoop wrote:

Can the kid hit times in practice?

If he can hit practice times, tell him he's training through his next race. Tell him you aren't concerned with his place. Give him specific times to hit each mile and be there with a watch. Take the race anxiety away.

Yes. I told him his goal times for his race tomorrow. I plan to be at the mile markers. This is the first time he has agreed to try a different strategy. Before, he would just say, "I can't race from behind." I think that when he goes out too fast and gets fatigued, smarter runners pass him and the doubts swell up into an avalanche. We are going to try to be the one doing the passing and putting the mental strain on the others. I will post tomorrow afternoon, or Sunday morning to let you know how it went.

He went out to slow, and struggled to navigate the pack. Finished 30 seconds off target time.

Over my head? wrote:

I should add that the only kid who is good at pacing is a full minute slower. Otherwise, I would try to employ your strategy. All of our top guys are horrible at pacing, like most HS runners. I am trying to break this habit with pacing workouts, making them hit a certain pace so many times before they can call it a day. They did twice the number yesterday before making the mark.

They are kids. Let them run and figure it out themselves.

With your method they will hate running until the end of their lives.

55YO wrote:

He went out to slow, and struggled to navigate the pack. Finished 30 seconds off target time.

Is this the OP? If so, you gave it a try. Ask him to explain how the race went. See if you can glean anything useful from his feedback.

fisky wrote:

55YO wrote:

He went out to slow, and struggled to navigate the pack. Finished 30 seconds off target time.

Is this the OP? If so, you gave it a try. Ask him to explain how the race went. See if you can glean anything useful from his feedback.

Just a hunch. If you go out too slow, it wrecks your race. Same as when you go out too fats. This kid probably went to the opposite extreme, if he even heeded the advice at all.

Strong headwind wrote:

Over my head? wrote:

I should add that the only kid who is good at pacing is a full minute slower. Otherwise, I would try to employ your strategy. All of our top guys are horrible at pacing, like most HS runners. I am trying to break this habit with pacing workouts, making them hit a certain pace so many times before they can call it a day. They did twice the number yesterday before making the mark.

They are kids. Let them run and figure it out themselves.

With your method they will hate running until the end of their lives.

Care to explain why?

As to my runner, he forgot his watch, and had to pace with another runner. The other runner took him out too slow, and they got boxed in going into the woods. Never got around them, and finished a minute off pace.

Over my head? wrote:

Strong headwind wrote:

They are kids. Let them run and figure it out themselves.

With your method they will hate running until the end of their lives.

Care to explain why?

As to my runner, he forgot his watch, and had to pace with another runner. The other runner took him out too slow, and they got boxed in going into the woods. Never got around them, and finished a minute off pace.

Buy a cheap Timex and have it available for the kids who don't bring one?

Damn, I want to get in shape too!

Over my head? wrote:

I don't buy into that philosophy. I believe that the best way is to build confidence. This one has me stumped. He has asked if I have had any other runners with the same issue, so he can talk with them about how they beat it. I don't know of previous ones because I have always felt confidence was the key, so I try to instill that in all of them.

I will add that when he was in middle school, he was something like the sixth runner on the team, but in HS, he is second or third. You would think the constant improvement would give him that confidence.

He is deeply wired that way. It may take him a lifetime of chipping away at it. Fear of success and failure at the same time sucks. He is afraid of being in the limelight, but fears the stigma of being more average. Has he tried counseling?

Over my head? wrote:

How do you get a runner to believe in himself, instead of suffering from negative self-talk?

I've got two kids, ages 12 and 15. They both run cross country. I've found that the less I say and do regarding their running, other than being their fans, the better. Backing off, letting them play their own game, has turned out to be the only play. If they want to be good at it, they'll decide to. If they don't, then they won't. I've realized the only way I can effect that, is to screw it up. The only exception, is positive reinforcement and a total ban on negative reinforcement, advice or suggestion. At this age, they simply reject outright, anything that they don't perceive as their idea.

"Good job" is the only thing that moves the needle. Anything else ("You should have" "you could have" "maybe next time") seems to cancel out the positive at this age, by a factor of 10.

You kids and situation may be different.

Buy a used copy of The Inner Game of Tennis by Tim Galwey and toss it to him without saying too much. Everything you need to know about getting the most out of yourself is contained in that slim volume. Sure, it's about tennis, but the lessons in there are universal, they apply to virtually every athletic endeavor. Don't talk to him about it unless he brings it up. Letting him figure out his own path to success is his responsibility, not yours. Be there as a resource that he can use. If you manipulate him into success he will never own his accomplishments. It's no crime if he never fulfills his potential.

It's not the destination it's the journey. Whatever you do, don't deprive him of the full journey. Be there when he asks for help, don't push it on him. Benign neglect is a good thing.

The biggest difference is that I am his coach and not his parent. The rest of your post is good advice.

His dad says he has always been that way. He sort of blames the mom. I think it is his older brothers. They have put him down since as long as I have known the family. I told them he would be the best of the four. He has almost reached that level. Only one had a more successful career. I think if he can get past the last one, he will soar. i could be wrong, though.

YAPPI wrote:

Damn, I want to get in shape too!

So do I