Molly Seidel training

Looks decent to me.

One of the rare top elites who actually post their workouts regularly in detail.

Molly the goat, all natty

Key takeaways:

Consistency

Focus on marathon (not trying to crush all events at once)

Polarized

Simplicity (does a few workout types very well, doesn't overcomplicate things like most sub-elites try to do)

Great mindset and perspective

Doped Up Real Estate Broker wrote:

Key takeaways:

Consistency

Focus on marathon (not trying to crush all events at once)

Polarized

Simplicity (does a few workout types very well, doesn't overcomplicate things like most sub-elites try to do)

Great mindset and perspective

Except for being polarized, what's different about Seidel compared to other Olympic level marathoners?

Not much is different from other ELITE marathoners.

I draw the distinction at sub-elites and Oly Trials hopefuls that often add far too much complexity and wishful thinking to their training. I point to her as an example to follow rather than the "everything but the kitchen sink" approach favored by many. Seth Demoor is example #1 as he tries to cram every Wetmore idea into his training while also trying to stay trail racing fit. I also see a lot of threads here where guys are trying to get a marathon qualifier while also trying to keep their 1500/5000 speed or they stress out about hitting heart rate zones/tempo paces/% of LHR and wind up doing a mish-mash of ineffective junk workouts based on three different books and a dozen LRC threads that they read about marathon training: The DanielsCanovaPfitzingerHansonsCrossfitVerhuelHIITPowerwalking Method.

Downvoted for using the metric system. wtf

I like how they call all her TEMPO runs threshold training cause they are against tempo training😋

Seriously that looks like a pretty standard marathon plan. The volume is pretty high(130mpw is a lot), easy days are easy but not crazy easy(most looks to be 630-730 pace, few 8mins for shakeouts), lots of tempo runs, and a bit of short 10k pace work. The double workouts are a nice touch.

Thanks for sharing. Living like a clock. A couple of variables that distort the analysis a little bit regarding paces and zones:

1) Her Half and Marathon PR's are obviously due for material adjustments.

2) Altitude. No detailed discussion of the greater need to "polarize" at altitude, with pace adjustments based on Flagstaff's elevation.

I agree with overcomplicating things especially by many Americans with pyramids and thus. In contrast East African workouts are simple…

25 x minute on minute off

10 x 3 minutes on 1 minute off

30k Hard

Molly’s mileage in her buildup also peaked at several weeks of 130 miles, and even her “maintenance” periods are 70-80 miles. Consistency and mileage are the keys, and you don’t really have to get more complicated than that.

JBaller33 wrote:

Molly’s mileage in her buildup also peaked at several weeks of 130 miles, and even her “maintenance” periods are 70-80 miles. Consistency and mileage are the keys, and you don’t really have to get more complicated than that.

I think you’re missing a key component. She doesn’t just run a lot- She does a lot of it at a moderate to hard effort.

Americans or whatever may make training more complicated than the traditional African approach but if you look at the major championships wouldn't you say we are medaling more or close to the front than before? More depth then in the past? I think overall its working though it doesn't always.

I agree with the above guy though you need to pick either being all in on the marathon or 1500/5k. Can't be both and reach you full potential. I mean if you want to do two peaks a year where you do training for 4-6months just pure marathon training then the next cycle be 5k-10k focused I think thats fine.

quickytug wrote:

JBaller33 wrote:

Molly’s mileage in her buildup also peaked at several weeks of 130 miles, and even her “maintenance” periods are 70-80 miles. Consistency and mileage are the keys, and you don’t really have to get more complicated than that.

I think you’re missing a key component. She doesn’t just run a lot- She does a lot of it at a moderate to hard effort.

What are you considering moderate to hard effort? She does a lot of her runs in the mid to high 7's for the pace which is slow for a low 2:20's marathoner.

Alexi Santana wrote:

quickytug wrote:

I think you’re missing a key component. She doesn’t just run a lot- She does a lot of it at a moderate to hard effort.

What are you considering moderate to hard effort? She does a lot of her runs in the mid to high 7's for the pace which is slow for a low 2:20's marathoner.

Are those her base EZ runs? I am probably a 3:10-3:15 marathoner right now and my EZ runs are 8:50-9:10 in the heat, but more like 8:30-8:40 in the cooler weather.

Yes those are her easy runs. Not sure what point you are trying to make by sharing your times

Alexi Santana wrote:

Yes those are her easy runs. Not sure what point you are trying to make by sharing your times

I wanted to see how far away I was in relation to her, and if they were proportional to hers in terms of ability. i.e. as I get faster, will my EZ runs get to that level, even if I don't obviously run 2:27 or so. Even if I get to 2:55-3:05 at some point, what would the equivalent EZ paces would be at that point, etc.

fkkfkfkfkf wrote:

I like how they call all her TEMPO runs threshold training cause they are against tempo training😋

+1

"Polarized training" is such nonsense. They work so hard to make everything fit the model, but even the original studies were not accurately describing the training they were looking at according to the actual athletes and coaches being observed. It's one of those models that's vague enough that you can squint and make anything look polarized. The real bottom line, though, is pretty clearly wrong: The "middle paces" that you're supposed to avoid are actually the paces that the world's best marathoners rely on most heavily.

jecht wrote:

Alexi Santana wrote:

Yes those are her easy runs. Not sure what point you are trying to make by sharing your times

I wanted to see how far away I was in relation to her, and if they were proportional to hers in terms of ability. i.e. as I get faster, will my EZ runs get to that level, even if I don't obviously run 2:27 or so. Even if I get to 2:55-3:05 at some point, what would the equivalent EZ paces would be at that point, etc.

It doesn't work that way.

Elite runners are running a marathon at around 85% of their VO2max. Very good recreational runners are at 75%, and average runners are more like 60%. One of the consequences of having a marathon race pace that's so fast relative to your 3k pace (i.e., vVO2max) is that it's also very fast relative to truly easy paces. A three hour marathoner will frequently hit MP during "non-workout" runs because it's a pace that is usually pretty comfortable when you're feeling good. A 2:28 marathoner is never hitting 5:40 pace just by accident. That's a fast, workout-level pace.

The cool thing about marathon training is that, while your VO2max is largely a fixed value that doesn't respond to training, you actually can improve your fractional utilization of VO2max year after year, until you hit a ceiling that's typically in the low 80s (it depends also on how fast you are, because you can high a higher percentage if you're only running for 2 hours vs. 2:30). As your fractional utilization increases, though, your easy pace stays pretty similar. To the extent that it improves, it's usually due to improved running economy or weight loss (the latter being the only reliable way to improve VO2max in trained athletes).

Thank you 800. I didn't know that before!