Vaccines are extraordinarily safe

The thread is not going well for the OP.

Lead Foil Hat XXIV wrote:

[quote]Folger wrote:

Have you studied any scientific disciplines beyond high school. It is an absolute fact that we won't know the full safety profile of these new vaccines for about ten years. I hope they turn out to be safe, but the potential for vaccines that high-jack cellular machinery in a similar manner to viruses is ripe with potential for the long term development of random autoimmune diseases. Only time will now tell if this concern is a major one or a very minor one. The choice for many is a mild corona virus infection, a cold, or take the chance that the above does not occur in a crippling way.

I for one have studied scientific disciplines beyond high school. Enough to see that you're building up a bugbear out of "vaccines that high-jack cellular machinery in a similar manner to viruses" that are "ripe with potential for the long term development of random autoimmune diseases" while not bothering to mention that the virus itself definitely hijacks cellular machinery and is ripe with potential for long-term damage.

It's a simple enough rhetorical trick, but anybody who actually knows any science will see through it immediately.

Everything we know still supports the conclusion that getting the vaccine is the wiser choice.

If you are actually a doctor, you are making a good argument for stricter licensing standards.

COVID is a relatively stable virus because it has a “proofreading” enzyme that corrects potentially fatal copying mistakes. It typically accumulates only two single-letter mutations per month in its genome — a rate of change about half that of influenza and one-quarter that of HIV. The main driver of variants is the fact that so few people globally have immunity either through vaccination or prior COVID infection that the virus has had the opportunity to replicate on a massive scale.

And it really is a choice between COVID and the vaccine. If you are going about life as if COVID did not exist and are not vaccinated, you are going to get COVID if you live in the US. If you get vaccinated, you do have protection against infection. Add wearing masks, social distancing to that and your odds of getting COVID are minute compared to the unvaccinated guy going to BW3s every night to play trivia and watch old MMA fights. Vaccinated people who are taking precautions are absolutely not a reservoir for mutations. That is a complete lie and disinformation.

The mRNA vaccines are probably in the 40-60% range effective right now and a booster may get that back up to 80-90%, meaning that herd immunity may get back to within reach again. Given how transmissible Delta is, getting vaccinated is absolutely crucial at this point and anyone who isn't vaccinated is absolutely 100% responsible for the current crisis.

Runningart2004 wrote:

wazzu1452 wrote:

NON

FDA

APPROVED

With all FDA-approved products, you are completely ensured the following:

They have been tested for efficiency and safety

Food is safe, wholesome, sanitary, and properly labeled

Manufacturing practices and quality control standards have been met

Medication dosage levels have been established by valid pharmaceutical research

The manufacturer has worked with doctors and veterinarians to ensure proper usage and efficiency

The manufacturer will work with your doctor or veterinarian to stand behind the performance and safety of the product

Which is a bunch of red tape....which is expected by early next month.....with the vaccines in their current emergency use form.....

Alan

The hilarious thing is how hard Desantis is pushing the mAb cocktails which are, um (checks notes..) given under EUA!!

Also, regarding that PhD hesitancy, I can only give 2 anecdotes, I have one (a PhD) and I work with dozens of them. Most I know HAVE gotten the vaccine eagerly, some I don't know if they have and I don't know any that declined. I'm not saying none did to be fair but overwhelmingly people (and their families) have gotten it.

I even have (more anecdotally) 2 PhD friends who work for 1 of the mRNA companies. Both of them and their families are vaccinated.

In addition, I suggest there could be other issues with that survey (only 1.x% of people have a PhD for one thing). Many are not in science, some are in things like theology even...also people can lie on surveys, I don't know how or if they controlled for any of this. Also, when was this survey done? Hesitancy may have changed markedly after 8 months of safe use.

Its also possible that some PhDs know enough to generate healthy skepticism (which is good) but not enough about vaccines, immunology etc to take the next step and determine a specific fear is unfounded. Lots of scientists know what could go wrong with a vaccine, not as many can judge, determine, evaluate whether any given thing WILL go wrong or HAS gone wrong this time.

Folger wrote:

You do realize this, right? Even if you're a healthy, 20 something and primarily care about your own health you should get the vaccine. It's amazing how people who haven't studied science beyond high school don't simply defer to the experts on this. If you don't get the vaccine, you will get covid. It's a choice between covid and the vaccine.

1. Define "safe"

2. It is simply not factual to say "if you don't get the vaccine, you will get covid". You may get Covid.

3. All COVID vaccines are being used under emergency authorization. None have been give the FDA normal approval for use - why not? Why shouldn't we wait for that approval?

4. None of the organizations demanding their employees get vaccinated have also indemnified their employees from damages or death that might be caused by the vaccine. If the vaccines were safe, that indemnification would be costless.

5. Fundamental American rights guarantee the right to privacy and choice in cases of medical decisions. Check out Roe v Wade.

Folger wrote:

You do realize this, right? Even if you're a healthy, 20 something and primarily care about your own health you should get the vaccine. It's amazing how people who haven't studied science beyond high school don't simply defer to the experts on this. If you don't get the vaccine, you will get covid. It's a choice between covid and the vaccine.

We don't defer to the experts? You mean the Fauci's who have lied to us constantly and believe we should not be allowed to make personal choices about anything and defer to Dah experts. There is a lot on the left who like the idea of the "expert" class from the halls of academia who tell us all how we should live our lives. History has shown how terrible of an idea this is and the last year and a half has confirmed this.

As far as getting the vaccine it seems we are getting a lot of evidence that suggests we should be questioning if young people should not be getting the vaccine. The Vaccine has shown not to cause the robust immune response that getting Covid causes which invokes other responses like T-Cells which are what provide long-term immunity. So there is a real question if young people should be getting the vaccine that is still under emergency authorization when they are at little risk of Covid. By the way, I recall scientists expressing this concern 8-9 months ago and being slammed by "the experts" and silenced by big tech. So forgive me if I prefer to check the facts before trusting the Dah Experts blindly.

Next time you start a thread stating something definitively like it is science actually bring some data to the table and not talking points.

Anyone with a phd can see that the benefit for a young healthy person is very very small. As such there is little reason to get a vaccine. Its probably close to a toss up.

Well, for those under 18, about 0.9% of diagnosed cases get hospitalized. Seems like preventing that is a good benefit?

https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/

Also, most vaccine you get/got are for things that are a minimal threat because either the disease is not always severe (ie chickenpox, even polio is 70% asymptomatic), and/or because the community is vaccinated.

If Biden can't secure Afghanistan with the greatest military in the history world, I don't think we have to worry about Biden harassing us about vaccines or masks.

Just blow him off.

He is weak....like his supporters

What is the worry for young healthy people that the vaccine is going to do them? Wouldn't it be the opposite? That unhealthy individuals that are immunocompromised should be worried about side effects?

If a person is young and healthy than the risk for the vaccine should be extremely minimal, right?

Are you kidding me? Normal vaccines do not behave like viruses; where are those in the US? Taking a vaccine that mimics a severe infection without making you sick is, yes, just like the case of a severe viral infection ripe with potential for promoting autoimmune disease. So, if you are susceptible to severe infection from the virus then the trade-off is worth it if the vaccine prevents severe illness. If you are not going to get more that the sniffles, over 95% of covid cases, then the risk of autoimmune disease from a mild cold is nil while the vaccine could potentially be massively elevating your risk for autoimmune disease. You are the one playing with words and not using your brain. The best alternative would be vaccines that do not highjack cellular machinery, vaccines that exist but the US government will not authorize use of for some reason. Instead, they and dumb follower demand everyone join the experiment and wonder why there is resistance. It is extremely dumb and very sad to watch play out.

Shame they do not work

why young healthy people so worried wrote:

What is the worry for young healthy people that the vaccine is going to do them? Wouldn't it be the opposite? That unhealthy individuals that are immunocompromised should be worried about side effects?

If a person is young and healthy than the risk for the vaccine should be extremely minimal, right?

Wrong, imagine all of your neurons, or pancreatic cell, or liver cells presenting antigenic material at high levels on their surfaces....then your immune system develops a robust response to attack these now foreign surfaces (your cells)....over time your immune system slowly degrades these tissues, your body tries to regenerate, when this happens your immune system keeps fighting, and for many years you fight an oscillating battle of tissue degradation and renewal until your body gives up. Depending on the cells most targeted, the outcomes in 10-20 years could be diverse and devastating. If you are old, in 10-20 years you likley won't be around anyway, if you are young you are facing decades of life in misery or an early death or both. The trust is that we do not yet know if this will be a problem and we won't for another 10-20 years. The experiment has been run, keep your fingers crossed for those young people that have joined or been forced into this experiment.

Know what? You've convinced me. I'll take your word over that of the actual immunoligists I had been talking to.

Always grateful for the expertise on this site. Thanks!

TexasBaby wrote:

If that were so true then you wouldn't need to keep telling people.

If only this were actually true lol

Lol yea and I actually work in a hospital for a living and dont spend my life trying to pretend I'm smarter than other people on letsrun.

TexasBaby wrote:

If that were so true then you wouldn't need to keep telling people.

50% of Americans believe in angels. You need to keep telling them obvious facts

why young healthy people so worried wrote:

What is the worry for young healthy people that the vaccine is going to do them? Wouldn't it be the opposite? That unhealthy individuals that are immunocompromised should be worried about side effects?

If a person is young and healthy than the risk for the vaccine should be extremely minimal, right?

Why does a young healthy person need to be vaccinated?

real doctor wrote:

Precious Roy wrote:

If you are actually a doctor, you are making a good argument for stricter licensing standards.

Lol yea and I actually work in a hospital for a living and dont spend my life trying to pretend I'm smarter than other people on letsrun.

Explain why healthy people should be vaccinated?