You claim you are not a conspiracy theorist and then you come out with this rubbish.
You really think that virtually all world leaders, scientists and health professionals are collaborating with big pharma to trick people into getting vaccinated?
Oh dear, oh dear.
fisky wrote:
Harambe wrote:
4) limiting transmission and replication events prevents variants from arising
...........
I don't want my vaccine to suddenly become less effective because fearmongers insisted on maximizing replication cycles and cultivating new variants rather than get an effective vaccine. We have (had?) a chance to beat this thing into the ground but many people are trying their best to keep COVID alive.
I understand your position. I agree with point #4, for example, but I see a flaw in your next premise. We are not going to beat this into the ground by what we do. Variants are going to occur regardless of what we do. Here is why.
In the US, 146 million people are fully vaccinated, or 44.6%. To reach 90% vaccination rate, we would have to another 144 million fully vaxxed.
In India, 3.5% are fully vaccinated, or 47.9 million. For India to reach 90%, another 1.18 Billion people would have to be vaccinated. Worldwide, the vax rate is only 4.6%.
My point is that you can't look at the US in a vacuum. If a deadly variant is going to occur, it will occur. The US is less than 5% of the world's population. Our vaccination rate isn't going to make any significant difference.
What might make a difference would be for governments to buy/nationalize the patients for the mRNA vaccines and the J&J vaccines and allow anyone to make them. India and SE Asia could do it for pennies and vaccinate BILLIONS of people. If you want a villain to blame for variants, look at the UN, WHO, China, Russia, and the EU for not making this happen.
That is why I said that the variants are not due to vaccine hesitancy at the moment bu may well be in the future. Hopefully vaccine availability will be increasing worldwide now, which would lead to vaccine uptake eventually being a result of interest in getting the vaccine as opposed to vaccine availability. Obviously that won’t happen overnight
If and when it does, then the proliferation of variants will be a product of vaccine hesitancy. Note—that was the point that is the lowest present concern. Points 1-3 are an issue right now
BritGuy wrote:
You claim you are not a conspiracy theorist and then you come out with this rubbish.
You really think that virtually all world leaders, scientists and health professionals are collaborating with big pharma to trick people into getting vaccinated?
Oh dear, oh dear.
No. The Oligarchs who own Big Pharmak, the media, and our pols have never lied to us. They never would.
Oh my. Oh my.
[quote]trashcan wrote:
"...then the proliferation of variants will be a product of vaccine hesitancy."
God help us.
DanM wrote:
Guilty and Still Lying wrote:
Because my kids aren't and they can't get vaccinated.
The typical seasonal flu is more dangerous to children than COVID-19.
Far, far more dangerous to kids.
By the way, I have never had a flu shot, and never had the flu. Unlike many people I know who have gotten ill from the shot and others who have gotten the flu shot and still got the flu.
Does experience and real life not matter to these people so deathly afraid of Covid? Can they not think for themselves instead of repeating garbage like vaccine hesitancy and mutant variants?
Covidiocy wrote:
fisky wrote:
I understand your position. I agree with point #4, for example, but I see a flaw in your next premise. We are not going to beat this into the ground by what we do. Variants are going to occur regardless of what we do. Here is why.
In the US, 146 million people are fully vaccinated, or 44.6%. To reach 90% vaccination rate, we would have to another 144 million fully vaxxed.
In India, 3.5% are fully vaccinated, or 47.9 million. For India to reach 90%, another 1.18 Billion people would have to be vaccinated. Worldwide, the vax rate is only 4.6%.
My point is that you can't look at the US in a vacuum. If a deadly variant is going to occur, it will occur. The US is less than 5% of the world's population. Our vaccination rate isn't going to make any significant difference.
What might make a difference would be for governments to buy/nationalize the patients for the mRNA vaccines and the J&J vaccines and allow anyone to make them. India and SE Asia could do it for pennies and vaccinate BILLIONS of people. If you want a villain to blame for variants, look at the UN, WHO, China, Russia, and the EU for not making this happen.
Correct
Some big misconceptions here, but I generally agree
1) We should not hold ourselves to a lower standard because other countries aren't rolling out the vaccine as fast. We have the potential to remove the US from the variant production pool, why not? Every incremental benefit helps.
2) I agree we should be distributing vaccines worldwide, but simply removing patents does nothing. The technical expertist to make LNP-mRNA vaccines is extremely rare. It's not a bioprocess that standard generic pharma companies could immediately scale up. Patents are not the issue. Modern already isn't enforcing their patents!
The expertise is simply too rare.
In general, the argument of: "other countries are not going to match us, it's futile, we should give up" is not a good one, especially for a low cost intervention like vaccination.
I feels like people will cling to -any- excuse to justify their vaccine hesitancy, making it obvious that you all understand the bad choice you are making and are actively searching for new arguments to calm your nerves.
[quote]Harambe wrote:
Please. Pontificate more on:
replication events
maximizing replication cycles
cultivating new variants r
bioprocess that standard generic pharma companies..
vaccine hesitancy
Das Unkle wrote:
BritGuy wrote:
You claim you are not a conspiracy theorist and then you come out with this rubbish.
You really think that virtually all world leaders, scientists and health professionals are collaborating with big pharma to trick people into getting vaccinated?
Oh dear, oh dear.
No. The Oligarchs who own Big Pharmak, the media, and our pols have never lied to us. They never would.
Oh my. Oh my.
So it's a worldwide conspiracy with everyone in on it eh. Wonder how they got all the world's scientists and healthcare workers in on it.
All I can say is let's be thankful there are brilliant minds like you who see through it all.
BritGuy wrote:
[quote]Das Unkle wrote:
[quote]BritGuy wrote:
So it's a worldwide conspiracy with everyone in on it eh. Wonder how they got all the world's scientists and healthcare workers in on it.
All I can say is let's be thankful there are brilliant minds like you who see through it all.
You appear to be typically misinformed as to how the world works:
Hahn joins venture capital group behind Moderna
Hahn oversaw the FDA's emergency use authorization of the Moderna and Pfizer COVID-19
Former Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Stephen Hahn is joining Flagship Pioneering, the venture capital firm that launched Moderna, as chief medical officer to lead its preemptive medicine and health security initiative.
Hahn served as the FDA chief during the Trump administration from 2019 to 2021, and oversaw COVID and non-COVID regulatory affairs, including therapeutics and vaccine development, devices, diagnostics and clinical trials.
Hahn, in December, oversaw the FDA’s emergency use authorization of the Moderna and Pfizer COVID-19 vaccines.
BritGuy wrote:
Das Unkle wrote:
No. The Oligarchs who own Big Pharmak, the media, and our pols have never lied to us. They never would.
Oh my. Oh my.
So it's a worldwide conspiracy with everyone in on it eh. Wonder how they got all the world's scientists and healthcare workers in on it.
All I can say is let's be thankful there are brilliant minds like you who see through it all.
Even worse, the oligarchs have won and all the denier-fearmongers do it sit in their basement and madpost. Shameful.
Harambe wrote:
BritGuy wrote:
So it's a worldwide conspiracy with everyone in on it eh. Wonder how they got all the world's scientists and healthcare workers in on it.
All I can say is let's be thankful there are brilliant minds like you who see through it all.
Even worse, the oligarchs have won and all the denier-fearmongers do it sit in their basement and madpost. Shameful.
Afraid to reply to me directly I see.
You ought to stick to your specialties
replication events
maximizing replication cycles
cultivating new variants r
bioprocess that standard generic pharma companies..
vaccine hesitancy
How an you pass on a disease you don't have to someone who is immune to it?
Harambe wrote:
BritGuy wrote:
So it's a worldwide conspiracy with everyone in on it eh. Wonder how they got all the world's scientists and healthcare workers in on it.
All I can say is let's be thankful there are brilliant minds like you who see through it all.
Even worse, the oligarchs have won and all the denier-fearmongers do it sit in their basement and madpost. Shameful.
Sadly true.
Harambe wrote:
BritGuy wrote:
So it's a worldwide conspiracy with everyone in on it eh. Wonder how they got all the world's scientists and healthcare workers in on it.
All I can say is let's be thankful there are brilliant minds like you who see through it all.
Even worse, the oligarchs have won and all the denier-fearmongers do it sit in their basement and madpost. Shameful.
THIS is shameful:
https://www.wfla.com/news/no-vaccine-needed-for-those-whove-had-covid-19-cleveland-clinic-study-says/https://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/national/coronavirus/cdc-estimates-1-in-3-americans-have-been-infected-with-covid-19Das Unkle wrote:
BritGuy wrote:
[quote]Das Unkle wrote:
[quote]BritGuy wrote:
So it's a worldwide conspiracy with everyone in on it eh. Wonder how they got all the world's scientists and healthcare workers in on it.
All I can say is let's be thankful there are brilliant minds like you who see through it all.
You appear to be typically misinformed as to how the world works:
Hahn joins venture capital group behind Moderna
Hahn oversaw the FDA's emergency use authorization of the Moderna and Pfizer COVID-19
Former Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Stephen Hahn is joining Flagship Pioneering, the venture capital firm that launched Moderna, as chief medical officer to lead its preemptive medicine and health security initiative.
Hahn served as the FDA chief during the Trump administration from 2019 to 2021, and oversaw COVID and non-COVID regulatory affairs, including therapeutics and vaccine development, devices, diagnostics and clinical trials.
Hahn, in December, oversaw the FDA’s emergency use authorization of the Moderna and Pfizer COVID-19 vaccines.
Out of interest how does the Astra Zeneca vaccine fit into your vast global conspiracy. They are providing hundreds of millions of doses at cost. What do they stand to gain?
BritGuy wrote:
Das Unkle wrote:
You appear to be typically misinformed as to how the world works:
Hahn joins venture capital group behind Moderna
Hahn oversaw the FDA's emergency use authorization of the Moderna and Pfizer COVID-19
Former Food and Drug Administration Commissioner Stephen Hahn is joining Flagship Pioneering, the venture capital firm that launched Moderna, as chief medical officer to lead its preemptive medicine and health security initiative.
Hahn served as the FDA chief during the Trump administration from 2019 to 2021, and oversaw COVID and non-COVID regulatory affairs, including therapeutics and vaccine development, devices, diagnostics and clinical trials.
Hahn, in December, oversaw the FDA’s emergency use authorization of the Moderna and Pfizer COVID-19 vaccines.
Out of interest how does the Astra Zeneca vaccine fit into your vast global conspiracy. They are providing hundreds of millions of doses at cost. What do they stand to gain?
I can tell you how Moderna and Pfizer are benefiting from the decision of this guy they just paid off, oops, I mean hired. Surprisingly I do not know all the details as Big Pharma has not been consulting with me.
It's kind of sad to watch people grasp at straws to avoid admitting that the Oligarchs are lying and they never even questioned it.
The Unkle wrote:
Youre Welcome wrote:
[quote]The Unkle wrote:
I don't get it.
You think the vaccines work and you are vaccinated.
What threat am I to you?
The reason people like you can get away with being unvaccinated is only because the majority of the population is vaccinated. You should be thanking the people getting vaccinated because they have saved your life. If the majority was like you, we would all be dead.
You honestly believe that? WE would all be dead were it not for the vaccines?
How are you supposed to have a dialogue with people like this?
People have vaccines for more than COVID, you know. If it weren't for vaccines, life expectancy would be MUCH lower.
And the other point made is true; people who aren't vaccinated are protected by the people who are vaccinated. You should be thanking them. Instead, you ridicule them.
Agreed. Also, although people not vaccinated my not pose a risk to people who are, if the unvaccinated do get covid they will likely end up in hospital and need the attention of doctors who could otherwise be attending to another emergency. Basically they will be putting an extra burden on hospitals and potentially putting other non- covid patients lives at risk.
Exactly. The NHS shouldn't prioritise anti-vaxxers with Corona .
The Unkle wrote:
I don't get it.
You think the vaccines work and you are vaccinated.
What threat am I to you?
"You think the vaccines work."
Ok, #1 there isn't a debate on this so, yes, vaccinated people would like non-vaccinated people to get it so they do not get the virus. It's called caring about other people. You're right though maybe we should just think selfishly and take joy when non-vaccinated people get the virus and then deal with the long term effects. Or, you see this as a public health issue and are worried that science isn't science anymore and see that as a bigger problem. This free thinking stuff is fine on some things but it's a problem when people open themselves up to harm because they don't want to be told what to do. There will be other situations that call for a similar response. We can't have this large of a share of people think they know more than science. There might be bigger problems that arise in the future because of these attitudes.