JOSHUA CHEPTEGEI IS DONE!

It seems he has not replaced Bekele as the GOAT

Agree that this looks like a change in mentality more than anything. I think his relative under-performance at the World HM champs has gotten to him. He went into that as a strong favourite but he got dusted by Kiplimo, a guy he had previously beaten, plus Kandie and Walelgen. His time of 59:21 was also below expectations - I think everyone thought he'd run 58:XX.

This isn't a question of lacking the wavelights. Cheptegei was a metronome. Just look at his 5k road WR or 10k road WR. He could just grind to what was needed. Now, his pacing is all over the place. He needs to recover that internal metronome because his only hope over 5k in Tokyo is to grind it to a 12:40 which will break almost all of the field.

Honestly, I don't think he'll come back from Tokyo with a gold in any event.

SomebodyHadToDoIt wrote:

Doesn't even get top three in a fast race in Florence.

Discus.

Why when someone has a bad race do people title threads so and so is done!! Must like the shock and awe effect... so stupid. More than likely Cheptegei is still in heavy training but my concern is he doesn’t have the kick. We shall see

Armstronglivs wrote:

My god - NOTHING on wavelight in terms of performance enhancement. Nothing.

Really? You can't think of anything? You mean it's harder to follow the runners in front of you than a light on a track?[/quote]

Bro. You come on these boards portraying this sense of higher education and "facts" and the whole deal - and honestly some of your opinions are valid and I like your points of view.

But did you read this correctly before opening your mouth here? Did you see the point I was making in context?

The context was that while there is a large narrative that athletes are simply strapping on spikes (which I know for a fact have nothing new about them other than a lightweight foam that compresses easily and hence has allowed for cushioning in products that industry for decades didn't think was important - know this because I work on these products in one of the brand that creates these products) and believe that this is the primary reason for the destruction of multiple seconds off world records in distance events, I am saying that wavelight is comparatively a far bigger performance enhancer. Just read it mate. Reeeaaaaad.

What else can I think of? Doping - sure, great, way to state the obvious. I am going to assume in this case that if JC was doping during his WR races he either still is or even if he has stopped he effects of the training he did whilst doping (the real benefit) didn't disappear in 8 months so this to me is irrelevant.

I don't understand your point about following lights or runners but since I also was a professional athlete that ran maybe 80 or so races across my career including an Olympics, World Championships etc - following a light is considerably easier and more efficient than following a human athlete for a number of reasons. If you want that discussion just let me know.

Back to the original point - you know I find it ironic you come here and bash Americans with your self-righteous "center of the world" kiwi attitude but a lot of it is hypocrisy because you are just as bad (not reading, jumping to conclusions, being unnecessarily antagonistic etc)

How does that feel? Ya muppet.

He went after Komen's record and fell well short. Before this race he was claiming 12:40 or maybe even faster if things go well. Not even close.

He was clicking off 60, 61, 61,... in the middle and still dragging 4-5 guys with him. It must be demoralizing to know you're going to close 4 minute pace and everyone is still hanging. I think at the end of those series of surging laps he must have mentally shut down.

Chep can win the 10K if he just motors from the gun.

The 5K is a toss-up, but it's going to look a lot like yesterday, the only question is who is there with 400 to go, and whether it includes Spain.

Tim takes the 1500, Jakob won't be close enough with 400 to go.

michiganrunner55 wrote:

SomebodyHadToDoIt wrote:

Doesn't even get top three in a fast race in Florence.

Discus.

Why when someone has a bad race do people title threads so and so is done!! Must like the shock and awe effect... so stupid. More than likely Cheptegei is still in heavy training but my concern is he doesn’t have the kick. We shall see

michiganrunner55 wrote:

SomebodyHadToDoIt wrote:

Doesn't even get top three in a fast race in Florence.

Discus.

Why is it when someone has a bad race, people on these boards say so and so is done!! Must like the shock and awe effect... so stupid. More than likely Cheptegei is still in heavy training but my concern is he doesn’t have the kick. We shall see

I 100% agree. Seems like baseball is the only sport that gets having a bad day is not the end. Baseball’s philosophy is have a short term memory and get them tomorrow.

One bad race, is 12:54 a really a horrible race, isn’t the end of anyone’s career.

I say these Pro’s have the baseball mentality. Short term memory and I’ll get them tomorrow.

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

My god - NOTHING on wavelight in terms of performance enhancement. Nothing.

Really? You can't think of anything? You mean it's harder to follow the runners in front of you than a light on a track?

Bro. You come on these boards portraying this sense of higher education and "facts" and the whole deal - and honestly some of your opinions are valid and I like your points of view.

But did you read this correctly before opening your mouth here? Did you see the point I was making in context?

The context was that while there is a large narrative that athletes are simply strapping on spikes (which I know for a fact have nothing new about them other than a lightweight foam that compresses easily and hence has allowed for cushioning in products that industry for decades didn't think was important - know this because I work on these products in one of the brand that creates these products) and believe that this is the primary reason for the destruction of multiple seconds off world records in distance events, I am saying that wavelight is comparatively a far bigger performance enhancer. Just read it mate. Reeeaaaaad.

What else can I think of? Doping - sure, great, way to state the obvious. I am going to assume in this case that if JC was doping during his WR races he either still is or even if he has stopped he effects of the training he did whilst doping (the real benefit) didn't disappear in 8 months so this to me is irrelevant.

I don't understand your point about following lights or runners but since I also was a professional athlete that ran maybe 80 or so races across my career including an Olympics, World Championships etc - following a light is considerably easier and more efficient than following a human athlete for a number of reasons. If you want that discussion just let me know.

Back to the original point - you know I find it ironic you come here and bash Americans with your self-righteous "center of the world" kiwi attitude but a lot of it is hypocrisy because you are just as bad (not reading, jumping to conclusions, being unnecessarily antagonistic etc)

How does that feel? Ya muppet.[/quote]

Strangely, I don't feel much at all. But I am also trying to unravel what you said to discover a coherent point buried in there somewhere.

The only point I was making was that in the context of performance it tends to overstate the issue to say nothing exceeds the effect of wave light, as you said, when doping is still arguably the far greater performance enhancer. It also overstates the case for wavelight to say that it exceeds human pacing when there are extant world records (the 1500, mile and 3k) made without it, and it is just as likely that the latest records were the result more of doping than pacing technology. You have gotten yourself a little overexcited - about everything.

Number 12 wrote:

Both very strange progressions.

Cheptegi took 7 seasons to go from 13:32 to 12:57 at 23, then runs 12:35 next year at 24

Hmmmmm...

Here is the true progression (which started from 2014) you intentionally overlook

Eh, Cheptegei has never been a pillar of consistency. Famously blew up in the 2017 World XC championships after leading by a huge margin (30th), won it two years later. In 2019, he got his doors blown off in Shangai (7th, 13:06) and Lausanne (4th, 13:03) before winning the DL final (12:57) and rounding into form to dominate in Doha.

HIs result in Herculis this year was impressive. I actually thought his 7:33 was worth a 7:25-29 if he had not been going for the WR, so that was not bad either. He obviously doesn't seem to be in 2020 / 2019 form yet, but who knows if he is just training through these meets in anticipation of Tokyo or if there's actually an issue.

Just take it how it comes and don't draw conclusions. I am not counting him out nor penciling him in.

Former Olympian David Moorcroft Recalls Doping Controversies of Games Past

The practice of doping is believed to have been at its peak during the 1970s and 80s, and back then testing for drugs was less reliable. Suspicions about top athletes were rampant— and a cloud remains over many of the performances of that period. Host Aaron Schachter talks to David Moorcroft, former Olympic middle- and long-distance runner from Britain.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2012-07-26/former-olympian-david-moorcroft-recalls-doping-controversies-games-past

Good day Coe & Ovett.

Does anyone know where he is in traing? I figure since he doesn't have to worry one bit about selection or qualifying times he didn't need to let up and taper fully for this race - it might actually be that he took the check from the organizers, banked it, let them put him on their ads but showed up without intention to go 100% all they way, just fronting a bit for show for the audience, and then fall back to study his competitors from up close.

That said I do think Kiplimo is the hungrier Ugandian, unless it's super hot on race day it might take sub 12:40 to even medal in Tokyo.

michiganrunner55 wrote:

SomebodyHadToDoIt wrote:

Doesn't even get top three in a fast race in Florence.

Discus.

Why when someone has a bad race do people title threads so and so is done!! Must like the shock and awe effect... so stupid. More than likely Cheptegei is still in heavy training but my concern is he doesn’t have the kick. We shall see

Agree with all of this. Kemboi consistently would get totally destroyed in DL races and then dominate at championships (Edris too). Alamirew was the opposite, would crush on the circuit and then finish 10th + in championships. Hard to be in 12:35 shape year round, and I'd guess he'll be ready when it matters.

Lol, you're an idiot if you think he was talking about Coe or Ovett.

Hello Aouita, Beyer, Straub, Kirov, Viren etc.

David Moorcroft one of the most underrated athletes in history. His 5000m WR, achieved without a pacemaker, was certainly the clean WR until at least Bob Kennedy in 1996.

Armstronglivs wrote:

Number 12 wrote:

So Cheptegei has turned from a 12:35 runner into a 12;49 guy, and Ronald Musalaga has gone from a 3:30 to struggling to break 3:36.

Hmmmm...

Both very strange progressions.

Cheptegi took 7 seasons to go from 13:32 to 12:57 at 23, then runs 12:35 next year at 24

Musalaga had only broken 3:35 once (3:33.65) up until the age of 26, then runs 3:30 in 2019 and 3:31 twice.

Hmmmmm...

So the "shoes" make you run even slower?

i think they are referring to doping

Mr T........ wrote:

Lol, you're an idiot if you think he was talking about Coe or Ovett.

Have you ever seen a British not whitewashing another runner from his own country?

The fact he said that 70s era was dirty of doping say it all.

I was just needing this testimony from a son of the Great Bretagne.

ElGuerroujFan wrote:

Armstronglivs wrote:

So the "shoes" make you run even slower?

i think they are referring to doping

No kidding.