FINALLY! The Swedish model is vindicated!

Howdee ho wrote:

Yup, you've been doing the ridiculous fearmongering for over a year, and now when people are actually suffering from the poison you push the sick suggestion that no one is suffering from this. There is no bigger liar and conspiracy theorist than yourself and your few clown shills.

I ONLY trust sites if they have a "peace with god" tab up top. At least it's not a 30 min youtube video. You guys are almost there. Just need some actual data. All we need!

Howdee ho wrote:

Oh Please wrote:

Yes, as if the US is full of fair and balanced press with no one pushing agenda or propaganda...oh wait...that's all the media is now.

Lol. and that's rich considering the UK and the US are at war with free speech and are the leaders in misinformation and censorship at the moment. Very rich.

Well the other day the Belarusian president called in a fake bomb threat to a plane so it would land and they could arrest the journalist on board.

Harambe wrote:

johhnies wrote:

You sound very knowledgeable. So what is the RT-PCR CT they are using now?

Varies by test design/protocol/sample prep etc. There's no one number that applies across all schema.

Interesting. I've been asked this but I am really not sure what thresholds they may be using and its hard to get any real information around this. So it's likely many different CTs?

Harambe wrote:

Howdee ho wrote:

Yup, you've been doing the ridiculous fearmongering for over a year, and now when people are actually suffering from the poison you push the sick suggestion that no one is suffering from this. There is no bigger liar and conspiracy theorist than yourself and your few clown shills.

I ONLY trust sites if they have a "peace with god" tab up top. At least it's not a 30 min youtube video. You guys are almost there. Just need some actual data. All we need!

Oh ya. I ONLY trust sites that have blaring articles of white supremacy all around us or that have donations from Bill & Melinda.

Hardloper wrote:

Howdee ho wrote:

Lol. and that's rich considering the UK and the US are at war with free speech and are the leaders in misinformation and censorship at the moment. Very rich.

Well the other day the Belarusian president called in a fake bomb threat to a plane so it would land and they could arrest the journalist on board.

Oh, the US does nothing like this...

johhnies wrote:

Harambe wrote:

Varies by test design/protocol/sample prep etc. There's no one number that applies across all schema.

Interesting. I've been asked this but I am really not sure what thresholds they may be using and its hard to get any real information around this. So it's likely many different CTs?

Varies per test yes. It doesn't really matter because 1) most cases are symptomatic so you have/had high viral load and 2) asymptomatic spreading is well documented

The concern over high Ct "false positives" is unfounded because if someone has a Ct of say, 40, on a test indicating very low RNA detected, they are either on the upswing or downswing from a more infectious state. So very useful for quarantine and contact tracing purposes. If we were testing people every day you could imagine a regime where you had to hit a certain Ct to be deemed infectious, but we never had close to that level of testing in the USA, let alone enough research to justify a fairly risky proposition like that.

Test positivity correlates extremely well with hospitalizations, deaths, and excess deaths so the tests were never flawed to begin with.

I get that after a year of this you are well past arguing in good faith but many European countries that locked down much harder than Sweden have higher COVID death counts than Sweden.

These countries include but are not limited to- France, Portugal, Spain, UK, Belgium, Poland and Italy. You will find in the USA that the states that lockdown hardest didn’t fair any better with their COVID death count than the states that chose to lockdown not at all.

I know you’ll then point out examples like New Zealand or Norway with lower COVID death counts. However, my point stands for every example of a lockdown success story I can give three of lockdowns that didn’t work. There is no firm evidence lockdowns or government imposed restrictions had any effect on stemming COVID.

energeticlotuseater wrote:

I get that after a year of this you are well past arguing in good faith but many European countries that locked down much harder than Sweden have higher COVID death counts than Sweden.

These countries include but are not limited to- France, Portugal, Spain, UK, Belgium, Poland and Italy. You will find in the USA that the states that lockdown hardest didn’t fair any better with their COVID death count than the states that chose to lockdown not at all.

I know you’ll then point out examples like New Zealand or Norway with lower COVID death counts. However, my point stands for every example of a lockdown success story I can give three of lockdowns that didn’t work. There is no firm evidence lockdowns or government imposed restrictions had any effect on stemming COVID.

Countries are different, shocker.

Comparing Sweden to similarly sized and located countries suggests it did much worse than ones who took a more aggressive mitigation approach.

Individual behavioral choices likely underlie much of the "shape of the curve" in most countries. For some, government regulations strongly drive individual behavior, for others, probably not (see: USA mobility data). There's a lot to sort out. Certainly some mitigation efforts were less effective than others.

What's clear is that the Swedish model, hailed as some sort of genius way to save your economy and not kill thousands, did neither.

It’s a global pandemic like we haven’t seen in 100 years- of course no “model” did well, including countries like Italy who shutdown their nations for months on end.

energeticlotuseater wrote:

It’s a global pandemic like we haven’t seen in 100 years- of course no “model” did well, including countries like Italy who shutdown their nations for months on end.

Yup, we have a lot to learn and prepare for the next one.

Harambe wrote:

energeticlotuseater wrote:

It’s a global pandemic like we haven’t seen in 100 years- of course no “model” did well, including countries like Italy who shutdown their nations for months on end.

Yup, we have a lot to learn and prepare for the next one.

Yup, citizens from all over the world got one hell of a lesson about fear mongering and propaganda.

Brazil and India followed the model championed by many conservatives, worked a treat 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

We should have gone to war with this thing guys.

energeticlotuseater wrote:

Harambe wrote:

Yup, we have a lot to learn and prepare for the next one.

Yup, citizens from all over the world got one hell of a lesson about fear mongering and propaganda.

Lol. I would think the mass death would be the primary concern, but you guys are always good for a new laugh.

600k dead Americans and the concern is "fearmongering" about the disease that you just said was a once-in-a-century pandemic.

Gotta get your story straight.

johhnies wrote:

Yup, we can play that game. 600k dead from covid. 800k dead from covid vaccine. I would think the mass death from the vaxx would concern you?

Ok I know you are a troll but that's hilarious. 800k dead? Where?

I love this site!!

Harambe wrote:

energeticlotuseater wrote:

Yup, citizens from all over the world got one hell of a lesson about fear mongering and propaganda.

Lol. I would think the mass death would be the primary concern, but you guys are always good for a new laugh.

600k dead Americans and the concern is "fearmongering" about the disease that you just said was a once-in-a-century pandemic.

Gotta get your story straight.

You misunderstand.

I’m not saying COVID isn’t serious.

I’m saying there is no solid real world evidence that lockdowns worked when you compare lockdown states vs non lockdown states or lockdown countries vs non lockdown countries. I’m saying, much like the 1918 Spanish Flu, we cannot contain a highly contagious virus.

As far as the fear mongering goes-

You don’t think CNNs or Fox News ratings went way up when COVID hit? Higher ups at CNN unknowingly admitted as much to Project Veritas . Do you think these news networks perhaps had an incentive to keep their raitings high?

Petty bureaucrats like Faucci or a mayor of some minor US city had power & notoriety they never dreamed of pre-COVID. Do you not think these politicians, who get into politics usually because they believe they know better than the average joe & are usually highly narcissistic, didn’t enjoy this immense power and notoriety?

Read some history, it’s rife with examples of government takes advantage of mass panic.

1) News outlets are always sensational. I think COVID warranted some sensation, especially at the start when we really had no clue what we were dealing with. I don't see this as unique to COVID nor particularly noteworthy

2) I don't think much of the government response was driven by petty bureaucrats thirst for power. People were trying to keep their citizens from dying. Whether these people enjoyed wielding authority does not seem especially pertinent -- unless you think they were subjecting us to arbitrary displays of power with no reasonable public health justification. I think the evidence for this is minimal. Trying to combat a highly contagious deadly virus is challenging and not everything was done correctly --> this doesn't mean there was nefarious intent.

E.g. some states definitely stayed 'shelter in place' for too long (although mobility data suggests people made their own rules). School closures went on way too long in a handful of places.

Some states took way too little precautions and paid for their hubris when conditions changed.

The best way to avoid deaths in Covid is to have few airports, low thru put of foreigners (other states or countries)

M Knight Shyamalan made a movie reflecting it, ahead of his time.

NY never had a chance. Its no surprise Disney / Florida / California are similar.

Its all about exposure.

Sweden is multiple times worse than countries adjoining. What you see now is that they have run out of old and susceptible people.

Australia has done well. So has NZ.

If you want to do it by math and say 1% death rate is no biggie, then continue on - until you lose one of youirs.

Howdee ho wrote:

Oh Please wrote:

Yes, as if the US is full of fair and balanced press with no one pushing agenda or propaganda...oh wait...that's all the media is now.

Lol. and that's rich considering the UK and the US are at war with free speech and are the leaders in misinformation and censorship at the moment. Very rich.

Look Ivan, your posts are a little obvious, comrade. Please to return to remedial trolling class led by Sergei and hone your craft.

1) No argument there. When Covid first hit, I viewed it as a potential respite from front-page shark attacks. I couldn't believe it when I saw an article about a shark attack side-by-side with a Covid piece at the height of the pandemic.

2) I have to disagree with you there. I live in Michigan, and Whitmer used her "authority" to unilaterally shut down the state without the approval of the legislature. The Supreme Court finally shut down her abuse of a 1945 law (that she kept extending in order to maintain her grip on power), so then she got down with her buddies at the Mich Dept of Health.

It was quite evident at that time that Gretch was attempting to create some buzz in order to boost a potential shot at the VP slot. Everything she did had a political lean to it; even her emailed correspondence with her constituents included direct jabs at Trump and his response to Covid along with reassuring BS about how she was "keeping us safe".

She banned everything from buying seeds (!) to boating, and, worst of all, she shut down the schools. None of this had any scientific backing. All of this while sending nursing home patients back to nursing homes, with Covid (journalists are still fighting to get the data on that, but AG Nessel is in her pocket -- and her office refuses to relinquish the data. Kinda like Cuomo but without the Emmy.)

Her idiotic lock-down measures, combined with her constant attacks on Trump, gave me a strong impression that much of her reactions were in response to Trump asking states to open up. The more he requested states to open up, the more she dug her heels in. Her executive orders came across as vindictive, and were delivered in a condescending tone.

Well, almost a YEAR after I sent her an email telling her that keeping kids out of school was doing more harm than good for our children, she sends ME an email telling me that it's safe for kids to go back to school.

Sorry, but a little too late. The Teachers' Union had already dug its heels in. 80% of teachers in my school district voted to maintain remote learning AFTER they had received priority access to the vaccines. In fact, none of the schools in my area have middle school and high school full time in person. What a kick in the teeth.

Now Gretch is frantically going full DeSantis, trying to open everything back and to reverse the damage she's done, just in time, she hopes, for the next election cycle in 2022. Well, I can't tell you how many businesses I know of that are gone because of her ham-fisted policies. They aren't coming back soon.

I don't blame Gretch for going down to Florida to visit her dad. I'd like to move there.