End mask mandates to force people to protect themselves

[quote]Harambe wrote:

Math problem:

What's 80% herd immunity / 40% infected * 500k excess deaths.

WTF?

This guy is nuts

What are we even arguing about here.

2600 bro wrote:

What are we even arguing about here.

The guy things vaccines are bad because they don't work 100%. He seems to think getting a COVID infection gives you better immunity while ignoring the, uh, well documented health risks of such a route.

Regardless, the argument that COVID infection gives better immunity is unproven biologically.

Harambe wrote:

2600 bro wrote:

What are we even arguing about here.

The guy things vaccines are bad because they don't work 100%. He seems to think getting a COVID infection gives you better immunity while ignoring the, uh, well documented health risks of such a route.

Regardless, the argument that COVID infection gives better immunity is unproven biologically.

Thanks - I'm loading my "genius gun" as we speak.

2600 bro wrote:

Harambe wrote:

The guy things vaccines are bad because they don't work 100%. He seems to think getting a COVID infection gives you better immunity while ignoring the, uh, well documented health risks of such a route.

Regardless, the argument that COVID infection gives better immunity is unproven biologically.

Thanks - I'm loading my "genius gun" as we speak.

Loving the schizophrenic show.

Glenn Greenwald: I've been open to hearing rationale about why people who are fully vaccinated should wear masks if they're with other fully vaccinated people, but nobody from the federal government -- nobody -- can ever articulate a rationale for it ever, no matter how many times they're asked:

@JamesSurowiecki

1. More terrible public-health messaging. @JohnBerman asks Xavier Becerra why, if everyone in an office is vaccinated, they need to wear masks, and Becerra hems and haws before saying vaccinated people still need to wear masks because "we want you to be as safe as possible"

Here is the great irony: States without mask mandates have fewer cases and fatalities per capita over the past week than states with mask mandates.

Average new cases per million 5/2-5/9 with mandates: 1,016.2

Average new cases per million 5/2-5/9 without mandates: 695.6

Average new fatalities per million 5/2-5/9 with mandates: 13.2

Average new fatalities per million 5/2-5/9 without mandates: 9.2

Locales with the fastest case growth:

State New cases/million Mandate?

Illinois 1,202.6 YES

Washington 1,216.7 YES

Florida 1,258.4 NO

Delaware 1,272.4 YES

Pennsylvania 1,311.0 YES

West Virginia 1,388.3 YES

Minnesota 1,512.0 YES

Maine 1,597.2 YES

Colorado 1,657.3 YES

Michigan 2,330.5 YES

Locales with the slowest case growth

State New cases/million Mandate?

California 333.5 YES

Oklahoma 346.5 NO

Mississippi 425.4 NO

Hawaii 442.8 YES

Kansas 459.3 NO

District Of Columbia 460.5 YES

Alabama 461.3 NO

Arkansas 465.6 NO

Idaho 547.3 NO

New Mexico 562.3 YES

Locales with the fastest fatality growth:

State New fatalities/million Mandate?

New Mexico 14.8 YES

Kentucky 15.4 YES

Montana 16.8 NO

Illinois 17.3 YES

New York 18.2 YES

Pennsylvania 20.5 YES

Florida 21.5 NO

West Virginia 22.3 YES

New Jersey 22.5 YES

Michigan 48.5 YES

Locales with the slowest fatality growth:

State New fatalities/million Mandate?

Nebraska 1.0 NO

Alaska 1.4 NO

Arizona 2.1 NO

Vermont 3.2 YES

Hawaii 3.5 YES

Maine 4.5 YES

Wyoming 5.2 NO

Missouri 5.2 NO

Kansas 5.5 NO

District Of Columbia 460.5 5.7 YES

I think you are flipping cause and effect here buddy.

2600 bro wrote:

What are we even arguing about here.

The entire point of this thread is proposing how to increase the vaccination rate.

The OP thinks that if you end mask mandates, the unvaccinated will rush out to get their shots because they will then feel unprotected unless they get it.

I think if you tell people mask mandates won’t end until enough people are vaccinated, that will cause the unvaxxed to rush to get their shots so they can ditch the masks.

Star wrote:

2600 bro wrote:

What are we even arguing about here.

The entire point of this thread is proposing how to increase the vaccination rate.

The OP thinks that if you end mask mandates, the unvaccinated will rush out to get their shots because they will then feel unprotected unless they get it.

I think if you tell people mask mandates won’t end until enough people are vaccinated, that will cause the unvaxxed to rush to get their shots so they can ditch the masks.

Both could, in theory work, but I bet there's not a ton of overlap between "won't get vaccine" and "too scared to go out without mask because COVID." So I think the second option is stronger incentive.

I think a $500 tax credit for vaccination would be the strongest.

Vaccine demand was slightly higher in January when case counts were much higher. Some people are even skipping their second shots so it's not like they're anti-vaxxers. Just end mask mandates. If cases go up, those remaining people will get their shots. If cases stay down, there was no need for them.

Hardloper wrote:

Vaccine demand was slightly higher in January when case counts were much higher. Some people are even skipping their second shots so it's not like they're anti-vaxxers. Just end mask mandates. If cases go up, those remaining people will get their shots. If cases stay down, there was no need for them.

Sure, I agree with this, but it is really fair to subject the healthcare system to extra burden just to provide incentive for people to get vaccinated? Haven't doctors and nurses had enough of this?

if we could say "starting (some date in future) all mask mandates and COVID restrictions are ended, but no hospital is required to treat an vaccinated COVID patient" then sure.

Hardloper wrote:

Vaccine demand was slightly higher in January when case counts were much higher. Some people are even skipping their second shots so it's not like they're anti-vaxxers. Just end mask mandates. If cases go up, those remaining people will get their shots. If cases stay down, there was no need for them.

This guy gets it.

Plus: the unvaccinated pose zero risk to the vaccinated, so fvck ‘em.

2600 bro wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

Vaccine demand was slightly higher in January when case counts were much higher. Some people are even skipping their second shots so it's not like they're anti-vaxxers. Just end mask mandates. If cases go up, those remaining people will get their shots. If cases stay down, there was no need for them.

Sure, I agree with this, but it is really fair to subject the healthcare system to extra burden just to provide incentive for people to get vaccinated? Haven't doctors and nurses had enough of this?

if we could say "starting (some date in future) all mask mandates and COVID restrictions are ended, but no hospital is required to treat an vaccinated COVID patient" then sure.

Doctors treat people who do stupid sh!t all the time. It’s practically half the job. Drunks, gangbangers, idiot X-games dorks, people who can’t be bothered to walk around the block once in a while...people neglect themselves, and doctors treat them. That’s not new to Covid.

fully vaxxed, anti-masked wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

Vaccine demand was slightly higher in January when case counts were much higher. Some people are even skipping their second shots so it's not like they're anti-vaxxers. Just end mask mandates. If cases go up, those remaining people will get their shots. If cases stay down, there was no need for them.

This guy gets it.

Plus: the unvaccinated pose zero risk to the vaccinated, so fvck ‘em.

1) Not entirely true. There's still very small chance of breakthrough infection and severe symptoms. Additionally a large viral pool circulating in unvaxxed populations increased the chance of a vaccine-escape variant evolving.

2) See my previous point about load on the healthcare system.

fully vaxxed, anti-masked wrote:

2600 bro wrote:

Sure, I agree with this, but it is really fair to subject the healthcare system to extra burden just to provide incentive for people to get vaccinated? Haven't doctors and nurses had enough of this?

if we could say "starting (some date in future) all mask mandates and COVID restrictions are ended, but no hospital is required to treat an vaccinated COVID patient" then sure.

Doctors treat people who do stupid sh!t all the time. It’s practically half the job. Drunks, gangbangers, idiot X-games dorks, people who can’t be bothered to walk around the block once in a while...people neglect themselves, and doctors treat them. That’s not new to Covid.

Those issues are not highly contagious and cannot quickly overwhelm healthcare systems due to non-linear growth. Are you just being dense?

Hardloper wrote:

Vaccine demand was slightly higher in January when case counts were much higher. Some people are even skipping their second shots so it's not like they're anti-vaxxers. Just end mask mandates. If cases go up, those remaining people will get their shots. If cases stay down, there was no need for them.

So, just see if another hundred thousands deaths motivates a few more people.

That’s what you’re saying. People need to see more carnage and stress the healthcare system more and THEN more people would get vaxxed.

Star wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

Vaccine demand was slightly higher in January when case counts were much higher. Some people are even skipping their second shots so it's not like they're anti-vaxxers. Just end mask mandates. If cases go up, those remaining people will get their shots. If cases stay down, there was no need for them.

So, just see if another hundred thousands deaths motivates a few more people.

That’s what you’re saying. People need to see more carnage and stress the healthcare system more and THEN more people would get vaxxed.

This is a really solid point.

Also, to add...almost 600,000 people in just over a year won't see another sunrise on Earth.

And for that, they get blamed for their co-morbidities, race, pre-existing conditions and the party of their governor.

They died, but somehow it was their fault.

And the outcry is about masks, limited seating and vaccines?

I agree with your point...at what point is too much and do we really want to witness that threshold?

Stoppit Smith wrote:

Star wrote:

So, just see if another hundred thousands deaths motivates a few more people.

That’s what you’re saying. People need to see more carnage and stress the healthcare system more and THEN more people would get vaxxed.

This is a really solid point.

Also, to add...almost 600,000 people in just over a year won't see another sunrise on Earth.

And for that, they get blamed for their co-morbidities, race, pre-existing conditions and the party of their governor.

They died, but somehow it was their fault.

And the outcry is about masks, limited seating and vaccines?

I agree with your point...at what point is too much and do we really want to witness that threshold?

Lol it was a terrible point. The old lady who fell down the stairs in Monroe county Illinois who happened to have Covid didn’t die of Covid. Your precious 600k number is full of cases like this.