As long as we're talking about the CAA, how about JMU (who's fully funded, as well as excellent facilities), just finishing ahead of UNCW or College of Charleston every year. Both of those teams have bare minimum funding, College of Charleston doesn't even have a facility. Talk about under performing year after year.
JMU beat William and Mary women in March at CAAs
so? wrote:
Can Jones coach? Because it seems like he's getting decent recruits (~5:05 girls, 17:50-18:10 girls. Pretty solid for high school.) and they're not developing into D1 runners. Everyone seems to get injured and burned out. Now they don't even have a single sub- 17 girl, they can't score in the 10k, and what happened to the decent 800m girls they had last indoor? I don't think you can claim he can coach when something is clearly not working
I stand corrected then. He can’t coach either! I didn’t look that deep into it to be fair so my apologies. These older coaches just stop working with vigor and settle. JMU was also mentioned and I agree.
Look at every year of Outdoor T&F, not just XC...
Jeez you'd think William and Mary used to be like Oregon or something.
W & M is a very good university. One thing I admire about it is that they do not practice grade inflation. I am not sure, though. they let incoming students know exactly what that means. A paper graded at my fancy university as a A minus/B plus could well be a C plus/B minus at W & M. Of course, this statement regarding grading would be better if backed by empirical evidence, but living in Virginia I know too many students who simply underestimate the level of effort it takes to obtain A's and B's at W & M. (It can be done, as a former W & M good 10k runner did receive the national undergrad prize for physics). This doesn't excuse mediocre performances, it is just that once at school, the system takes a lot out of a student and running can become less of a priority than it is with some other schools. Add to this W & M is not in a P5 conference in 2021, it is not the first choice of in-state students, and well, it is not an easy place to coach.
BYU as mentioned is not in a P5 conference. But their culture, clearly not a cup of tea for everyone, really works for distance running. It is a unique place, and frankly, requires the right kind of person to attend there. They do a great job, however, and agree with it or not, they take advantage of the rules in their favor. W & M is not a compare.
rogermortimer wrote:
W & M is a very good university. One thing I admire about it is that they do not practice grade inflation. I am not sure, though. they let incoming students know exactly what that means. A paper graded at my fancy university as a A minus/B plus could well be a C plus/B minus at W & M. Of course, this statement regarding grading would be better if backed by empirical evidence, but living in Virginia I know too many students who simply underestimate the level of effort it takes to obtain A's and B's at W & M. (It can be done, as a former W & M good 10k runner did receive the national undergrad prize for physics). This doesn't excuse mediocre performances, it is just that once at school, the system takes a lot out of a student and running can become less of a priority than it is with some other schools. Add to this W & M is not in a P5 conference in 2021, it is not the first choice of in-state students, and well, it is not an easy place to coach.
BYU as mentioned is not in a P5 conference. But their culture, clearly not a cup of tea for everyone, really works for distance running. It is a unique place, and frankly, requires the right kind of person to attend there. They do a great job, however, and agree with it or not, they take advantage of the rules in their favor. W & M is not a compare.
The only people who believe this are people who go to William and Mary.
In reality, W&M is an average institution with not much academic clout, despite what the people who go there think.
No, shootpost, you are incorrect. Take math at Virginia Tech, for example. They have an excellent approach towards developing math skills. In fact, each exam can be taken up to ten times until someone, with effort, can show mastery. Their math lab is both forgiving yet ultimately rigorous. Hardly the case at W & M - generally speaking a one time exam - at a smallish school with very competitive people. Plus, I have heard from too many graduate school admissions people about the grading at W & M. They know it and do take it into account. They are not making this up. As far as the clout W & M carries, I have no idea and it is an assertion irrelevant to the the school's grading practices. It is not an easy place to do well - and frankly - it shouldn't be and I admire them for it. But it makes it tougher to recruit and develop in a very marginal sport like track and cross country.
It's really sad what's happened to the CAA. Half the teams have cut their mens teams due to title and now the only NCAA contending team in the conference sucks.
Waitforit4 wrote:
It's really sad what's happened to the CAA. Half the teams have cut their mens teams due to title and now the only NCAA contending team in the conference sucks.
Umm... I think you should look at this past weekends CAA championships results and you’ll see theirs a new NCAA contending team.
there's
The administration's attempt to cut the men's program is likely a grave created by years of budget cuts on both ends. Recruiting has probably been rough and the scare surely didn't help. At the least, it was a distraction; at most, it pushed away any athlete that cares about track.
Jones knows how to coach but is struggling with this team for some reason. Maybe they're too sensitive, maybe they're overworked, maybe they don't do all the proper stuff outside of practice. Only they know but I hope they fix it.
for the men, having everything they've worked for stripped away was probably devastating; and while they were likely ecstatic to get it back, it was probably hard to feel normal again. Bad excuse, but logical. Also seems they lost their top tier athletes the past two years and no one could step up through the bs of the pandemic and cuts.
I wonder if they'll ever be powerful programs again or if they just continue to fade.
Waitforit4 wrote:
It's really sad what's happened to the CAA. Half the teams have cut their mens teams due to title and now the only NCAA contending team in the conference sucks.
Exactly my point. When Gibby was at W&M the men were 5th at the 2009 NCAA Cross Country Championships. They made nationals 7 straight times and averaged 10th place at NCAAs over a 4 year period. They had a lot of success for years after Gibby left, too.
Now W&M men are getting beat down by Northeastern, who was 15th in the northeast region in 2019. The women are getting beat by everyone.
lol I think you're looking at the wrong meet results if you see an NCAA qualifying team, let alone contending (whatever that means) in there.
trintajmpshp wrote:
Waitforit4 wrote:
It's really sad what's happened to the CAA. Half the teams have cut their mens teams due to title and now the only NCAA contending team in the conference sucks.
Umm... I think you should look at this past weekends CAA championships results and you’ll see theirs a new NCAA contending team.
baggsy wrote:
The administration's attempt to cut the men's program is likely a grave created by years of budget cuts on both ends. Recruiting has probably been rough and the scare surely didn't help. At the least, it was a distraction; at most, it pushed away any athlete that cares about track.
Jones knows how to coach but is struggling with this team for some reason. Maybe they're too sensitive, maybe they're overworked, maybe they don't do all the proper stuff outside of practice. Only they know but I hope they fix it.
for the men, having everything they've worked for stripped away was probably devastating; and while they were likely ecstatic to get it back, it was probably hard to feel normal again. Bad excuse, but logical. Also seems they lost their top tier athletes the past two years and no one could step up through the bs of the pandemic and cuts.
I wonder if they'll ever be powerful programs again or if they just continue to fade.
How can you say Jones knows how to coach when the athletes on this team aren't developing AT ALL? It's really crappy of you to blame it on the athletes. When THE ENTIRE ROSTER is struggling, there's nobody to blame but the coach.
The distance men have had nothing taken away. William and Mary men have always put cross country first, and their cross country team was never at risk. Track was going to be cut next year, NOT this year. If they are running bad because they felt sorry for themselves, then they are SOFT and the coach has failed them.
You spelled abysmal incorrectly. The women's team has faced extreme adversity this year. You have no idea what the team has dealt with and have no right to comment on the performance of the team. The women's team had no coach in the fall. One athlete made to finals on a stress fracture in the 1500. Multiple athletes have continued to perform through extreme adversity. If you have an issue with team go directly to the coaches instead of posting about an issue you know nothing about on a public forum.
hornycat155 wrote:
You spelled abysmal incorrectly. The women's team has faced extreme adversity this year. You have no idea what the team has dealt with and have no right to comment on the performance of the team. The women's team had no coach in the fall. One athlete made to finals on a stress fracture in the 1500. Multiple athletes have continued to perform through extreme adversity. If you have an issue with team go directly to the coaches instead of posting about an issue you know nothing about on a public forum.
Nope they suck
hornycat155 wrote:
You spelled abysmal incorrectly. The women's team has faced extreme adversity this year. You have no idea what the team has dealt with and have no right to comment on the performance of the team. The women's team had no coach in the fall. One athlete made to finals on a stress fracture in the 1500. Multiple athletes have continued to perform through extreme adversity. If you have an issue with team go directly to the coaches instead of posting about an issue you know nothing about on a public forum.
They 100% still had a coach. In fact, they got upgraded from getting their workouts from an assistant coach (Jones) to getting their workouts from the head coach (Braden) in the fall. They got upgraded.
Better coaching would have prevented the stress fracture. Once knowing the athlete had a stress fracture, the coach should NOT have raced the athlete. They were 100 points away from winning the meet, why risk a complete break of the bone? This shows a total disrespect for the health of their athletes.
pathetic wrote:
hornycat155 wrote:
You spelled abysmal incorrectly. The women's team has faced extreme adversity this year. You have no idea what the team has dealt with and have no right to comment on the performance of the team. The women's team had no coach in the fall. One athlete made to finals on a stress fracture in the 1500. Multiple athletes have continued to perform through extreme adversity. If you have an issue with team go directly to the coaches instead of posting about an issue you know nothing about on a public forum.
They 100% still had a coach. In fact, they got upgraded from getting their workouts from an assistant coach (Jones) to getting their workouts from the head coach (Braden) in the fall. They got upgraded.
This 100%!!!! plus why would anyone want to air their grievances to Coach Jones directly? From my understanding he is dismissive & rude to his athletes. Doubt he would take criticism from a letsrun poster.
Better coaching would have prevented the stress fracture. Once knowing the athlete had a stress fracture, the coach should NOT have raced the athlete. They were 100 points away from winning the meet, why risk a complete break of the bone? This shows a total disrespect for the health of their athletes.
whoops formatting error.
Agree wholeheartedly with "pathetic" here. They had a coach, yes. Letting an athlete run on a stress fracture is not the inspirational BS you think it is. And, Jones is dismissive of his athletes needs, concerns, and health issues (mental or physical) so why would he listen to a letsrun critic? Some of us know as much or more than you do "hornycat155" so we have every right to post & question the coaches.
I’m a D2 female runner. Our coach explicitly told us not to visit LetsRun forums.
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