I don’t get all of the Tinman Elite hate

This what Tinman Elite need:

https://youtu.be/k1MMwA-fnDY

Now it’s possible Mr Tom Schwartz (and Tammy) tried to travel to Boulder to tell them this and realized it wasn’t going to work (ie they wouldn’t listen).

Here’s another suggestion. Tammy And Tommy could drive to the home in Boulder and give a speech like this:

https://youtu.be/qMMfODrOLnw

They would have to stand in the backyard though so it’s a well ventilated environment (covid). If Schwartz just got his covid dose2 according to the interview to the Johnson Brothers he needs another 2 weeks to build up full protection

pay attention wrote:

What other team (besides Bowerman) has 4 guys at 13:22 or faster and 3 guys w shots at the Olympic team?

Lol.

They don't have 3 shots at the Olympic team

ROFL[/quote]

3 qualifiers for Doha in 2019 means they have 3 people with a shot at qualifying for Tokyo[/quote]

That’s an exaggeration and you know it — they have one guy with a “shot” at the US team, and his shot is worse than 10-15 other guys in the 5k (which IMO means he has no shot). Maybe they don’t deserve as mush hate as they get, but don’t make them out to be something they’re not.[/quote]

OP was talking about Bowerman, which has lots of top contenders, as a way to illustrate that while Tinman is bad, other teams are also bad[/quote]

I can’t tell if you’re kidding...

Speedy1966 wrote:

Timan Elite Hate Explained

1. They have one runner that is even close to making a US Team

2. That one runner peaked in High School

3. That one runner, like Mary Cain & Kara Goucher, blames his couch for his lack of success.

4. The inmates are running the asylum

5. Social Media - If they were good no one would care but they are not....

1. True

2. False

3. False

4. Nonsensical

5. False

I see a whole lot of vitriol out there for a sport that consists of one simple activity: put one foot in front of another as quickly as possible. I have 2 criteria for finding any runner worth watching: (1) not a cheater; (2) runs fast. If they meet both of those, I have no other issue with them.

4 guys 13:22 - 13:17; yeah that Tom Schwartz..arrogant..such a crappy person and horrible coach.* One star blue chip and a bunch of also rans and some broken down mismanaged/poorly coached and made lemonade. The athletes turned into entitled brats and stabbed Tom in the back... this is the reason for the hate.

* sarcasm

It's a lot of validation for critics of Schwartz's coaching acumen (with personality lumped in) plus for critics of the self-gloss from c-list talent going back to that Runners World piece and continuously pumped out with little self-awareness on social media. They're probably also over-exposed through their approach. In coach and team members, they're the polar opposite of GBTC of the '70s, millennial version. They polluted their original image to make money. Nothing wrong with that, it just was bound to disappoint many who bought-in to their early messaging. Some who dislike Tinman going way back extended that dislike to the TME athletes and transferred it wholly onto the group due to their visibility. Some dislike the modern SM influencer culture and TME came to embody that to running fans, which is intentional in their desire for any flavor of attention.

Lots of reasons for the hate right now.

I was a fan. Had no opinion about Tom Schwartz but really appreciated the way the team grinded to get extra cash flow to support the training of mid tier elites. It's a dream many of us had and Drew in particular has helped many lesser performing athletes chase a ridiculous shared dream. That I appreciate. Additionally, they put forth 10x the effort of bowerman et al, to engage and grow the sport for youth. They're good people.

Right now, however, I'm a hater. Give back the Tinman name and move on. Once they rebrand as "hammer and axe track club" or whatever adidas PR can dream up, I'll be a fan again.

Yes, Tom was dumb for not negotiating a better deal and drew and the team have every legal right to do what they're doing. I have no hate towards them ending his contract. Just do the right thing and change names.

Speedy1966 wrote:

Timan Elite Hate Explained

1. They have one runner that is even close to making a US Team

2. That one runner peaked in High School

3. That one runner, like Mary Cain & Kara Goucher, blames his couch for his lack of success.

4. The inmates are running the asylum

5. Social Media - If they were good no one would care but they are not....

The inmates run the asylum because Tom was too dumb to do it himself and would rather scam parents of HS runners into paying him vast sums of money for basic training plans and advice.

tinmanhater wrote:

Free Salazar wrote:

Lol.

They don't have 3 shots at the Olympic team

ROFL

3 qualifiers for Doha in 2019 means they have 3 people with a shot at qualifying for Tokyo

World Champs is 10x easier to qualify for than Olympics, Parsons had to switch to German as he didnt have a shot through the US , Drew barely qualifed because Kincaid didnt have the standard and since then Klecker Mcgorty and Fisher have all passed Drew and idk who the third is but if its Reed he's no chance either

Agreed. They just do a good job marketing - can’t hold that against them.

All the recent news is misleading because many of the things Tammy Schwartz said were false. If it weren’t for that people wouldn’t see them so negatively.

Seems like a lot of people triggered by Sam’s Tesla, gf, and mostly harmless mindfulness schtick. Maybe these folks can take some solace in that he looked kind of nervous in his “contract year” video. And you can see why he’s nervous, dude has a pretty nice life (or at least he portrays it that way).

LOLOLOL wrote:

World Champs is 10x easier to qualify for than Olympics,

wut?

Because Letsrun turned from a place where runners discussed, argued, and bickered to nothing but a troll-swamp with children who obviously need way more attention than they get at home. At any rate, any of us actually coaching and working with athletes respect the group, respect Tinman for his success, and are sad to see the end/change of an era. All greats are controversial, all coaches have flaws, but at least he was all in and went for it.

tinmanhater wrote:

i really don’t get all the recent tinman hate. Everyone on LRC always talked about how they thought Tom was arrogant, and the team needed a new coaching change. Now they do that, and everyone in the world is out to get them. What other team (besides Bowerman) has 4 guys at 13:22 or faster and 3 guys w shots at the Olympic team? Let alone in sh*t Avantis, they haven’t even got super spikes yet! They have brought the sport of running to way more people than anyone else, and make an effort for the sport as a whole to get better. What gives?

Don't take the man's name. When they took his name for their group, that implied that, no matter what else it was, it was his group based on his training vision.

Now the brand may have grown beyond that initial name, mostly due to their hard work (and it is hard work), but this is going to haunt them until they re-brand.

I suspect all concerned wish they had handled this whole thing from start to finish very differently.

Tom Schwartz gave himself a nickname. I was told at 5 years old that was bad form.

I just posted under King Kong. No one has ever called me King Kong. I just want to be called King Kong. Let’s say I continue this self appointed name and expect others to refer to me as King Kong. This exactly what Tom did on this same board.

What legal rights do I have to this name? NONE. If Tom felt there was value in the name TINMAN then there was a litany of things he should have done legally.

If Tinman Elite was a name that Tom Schwartz had legal rights to things would be different. That is not the case.

I guarantee that legally a bunch of spoiled little brats could not steal the name Bowerman or Hansons or NAZ Elite. Why? Because these are groups that were not started by a group of children.

But Tom went to bed with these children and accepted their terms and that was the day that he surrendered his self appointed nickname.

If anyone reading this calls themselves King Kong Elite I recognize that there is nothing I can do about it. If King Kong Elite ask me to coach them, I realize that me saying YES is me recognizing that it is now their name and I am an employee of theirs.

I think the hype is surrounding Drew Hunter who is an over paid spoiled brat. Drew should take lessons Jakob is a kid who is earning his paycheck based on performance. Drew is running times that would indicate a running career that is dead after college. Adidas shlould save some cash and cut the kid.

At 2018 Club Cross Country in Spokane I was waiting in a long porta potty line with about 10 minutes to the start of the race. Most of the Tinman Elite squad walked over, asked former TME member Dan Nestor is they could hop in and then cut the whole line.

I think one thing no one remembers is that the name started as a kind of informal, natural, fun outgrowth of a small group of guys working with Tom. They named it, not Tom. Remember the Sharpie "Tinman Elite" T-shirts they wore in one of their early meets? Can't remember what meet it was but I think it might have been a club XC meet.

The other thing that no one seems to have mentioned is that it is possible they have contractual obligations with sponsors under the name Tinman Elite. This could certainly be changed at some point, but not overnight. Perhaps this is why no one from TME is addressing the name change yet? I would think they would WANT to change the name.

The third thing, in regards to handling this differently...It was unrealistic to keep this quiet till the OTs. However, if Tom agreed he wanted things to be kept quiet so both parties could move forward positively and focus on their next steps, he sure had a funny way of showing it. Telling everyone he could he was fired was an odd way to keep it quiet. Haven't seen TME trashing him publicly, but have seen Tom's passive-aggressive Instagram snipes at them, usually in contrast to the "wonderful character, respectfulness", etc of another of his many athletes. Not to mention his wife's postings here.