The choice not to get vaccinated is non "anti-science," instead, it's pro-ethics

Primo Numero Uno wrote:

There have been a few thousand cases of people with the vaccine getting infected again. A young person not getting the vaccine is not putting anyone at risk. Anyone who want the vaccine can now get it. Time for everyone to stop making excuses and get back to life. There are always risks in life. For once the Covid crazies need to be ones who learn to live with others who don't share their views in society.

A few thousand cases out of 100 million is a pretty low probability.

A young person not getting the vaccine is more likely infect another person than a young person getting vaccine.

The more people get vaccinated, the easier it is for everyone to get back to life.

There are always risks in life, but the risk of dying from vaccine is much lower than the risk of dying from covid. Take the lower risk.

The pansies who are afraid of needles need to learn to live with others who don't share their views in society.

Not getting a vaccination is not "free-riding." Free-riding requires someone to get the benefits of others' work or sacrifice. If you aren't benefitting, you can't free-ride. I don't get where this whole notion of getting the vaccine to benefit the "group." The vaccine is supposed to help yourself, which in turn helps others who have not been vaccinated/have natural immunity. Once all the people who need the vaccine, then the problem is over. I know in a twisted sense of altruism that people feel they are being heroes for getting the vaccine but you really are not.

Let it Rupp wrote:

Not getting a vaccination is not "free-riding." Free-riding requires someone to get the benefits of others' work or sacrifice. If you aren't benefitting, you can't free-ride. I don't get where this whole notion of getting the vaccine to benefit the "group." The vaccine is supposed to help yourself, which in turn helps others who have not been vaccinated/have natural immunity. Once all the people who need the vaccine, then the problem is over. I know in a twisted sense of altruism that people feel they are being heroes for getting the vaccine but you really are not.

Do you get any benefit from getting coronavirus related restrictions on your daily life?

If you enjoy wearing a mask, then you don't benefit.

If you don't like indoor restaurant dining, then you don't benefit.

If you don't want to fly, then you don't benefit.

If you don't like indoor sporting events, then you don't benefit.

If you want to see the Olympic Games cancelled, then you don't benefit.

Those willing to vaccinate sacrifice their time and may suffer minor side effects and/or pain. Those declining to vaccinate still benefit from the efforts of the vaccinated in many ways, such as businesses and schools reopening and reducing the chances that new, deadlier variants will emerge.

And altruism means acting to help others at some cost to myself and without any benefits. Getting the vaccine is not altruistic because it is something I do for myself first, while the benefit to others is a secondary effect.

I disagree.

Why?

The natural predestination for humans is the desire for freedom; those whom are vaccinated are giving up freedom for the common good.

Humans are intellectually designed to question and argue; those whom are vaccinated are choosing to trust in the scientific authorities.

Humans have fight, flight or freeze responses to fear; even though people fear the shot, those whom are vaccinated are choosing a common fight for strength.

Humans grow up to become skeptical; those whom are vaccinated are bringing hope.

Humans love independence; those whom are vaccinated are fine with being the herd.

Therefore, because of the tangential nature of these actions combined with a common goal for a positive end to Covid-19, in one way or another, those getting vaccinated are altruistic.

If you are younger there is virtually zero risk of dying from covid; the vaccine data coming in might say low probability, but it is higher than the virus if you are young and healthy....kind of asking youth to do a lot just to make you feel less nervous. If you are worried, get the vaccine, that is all we need, it is what we do with the flu each year.

Stoppit Smith wrote:

I disagree.

Why?

The natural predestination for humans is the desire for freedom; those whom are vaccinated are giving up freedom for the common good.

Humans are intellectually designed to question and argue; those whom are vaccinated are choosing to trust in the scientific authorities.

Humans have fight, flight or freeze responses to fear; even though people fear the shot, those whom are vaccinated are choosing a common fight for strength.

Humans grow up to become skeptical; those whom are vaccinated are bringing hope.

Humans love independence; those whom are vaccinated are fine with being the herd.

Therefore, because of the tangential nature of these actions combined with a common goal for a positive end to Covid-19, in one way or another, those getting vaccinated are altruistic.

You say that when you do not know the outcome; do you think the need to be altruistic is sort of selfish? Are people doing it for others or for themselves, so they can be virtuous? Is forcing others to do things virtuous or selfish? I say selfish, it is selfish; particularly when there is not real reason to need to do so. We don't need massive vaccination rate to reach herd immunity, and if we had done nothing long ago we would have already been there. SO the virtuous ffffed it up for everyone and cause us to prolong this whole thing and kill more people; now they demand young people who may be at greater risk from the vaccine than the virus to needle-up because they need to make up for the fact that their virtuousness at best only ruined the lives of millions and at worst caused more unnecessary death to occur in 2020.

I'm worried that the side effects long term will not be minor.

You are missing the point being made. And before you jump quickly to label me something just because I "dare" to question what you wrote, I am fully vaccinated, not an anti-vacc'er, whatever you would leverage to discredit me.

I respect the OP point of view and actually agree with a lot of what was written. Do I myself really think I needed this vaccine? Not particularly. Covid has caused me minimal hassle in my life. I wear a mask inside, don't get in the faces of strangers and I think the fact I am still in my 30's with an immune system that responds well to infection (thanks to a childhood of getting sick at least once a winter due to running around outside in bare feet when maybe I shouldn't have). I am "anti vaccines"? No - had plenty in my life. But do the facts point to me absolutely needing this in my body - honestly no.

The one thing that has shocked me about living here in the US, is how quickly you are labelled something if you don't subscribe to absolutely every doctrine of the complete opposite. Take politics - maybe 95% of your views align with those of the everyday liberal democrat but god forbid you think someone has the right to own a firearm you ignorant, bible-bashing republican hick.

So you believe covid is real, that you needed to take precautions and be sensible? Well good for you, you science loving, well-educated soul - wait a minute, you don't think you need a vaccine? Well damn you religious nutjob anti-vacc'er not altruistic selfish f--k.

Get a grip on reality my friend. Not everything is so black and white in the world. The sooner you and the self-righteous twats in the country realize this the better. I respect the right of people to use information at their disposal to make decisions for themselves. Honestly, the information I have leads me to think a vaccine is a waste of time for me too. Why did I get one? Because I just wanted to be 100% sure and not 99.5. It was my decision and right to make the choice, just like it is the OP's - so get off your high horse you tw@t.

Vaccines will be mandatory in regimes where vaccinations are already mandatory. International travel. Schools and universities.

Manufacturing a boogeyman of forced vaccination to justify personal anti-vaxx sentiments is dumb.

Just own that you're scared of the vax and let us call you names on LRC for it. No need to start threads every other day belaboring the point.

Self centered.