Help me understand Joe Rogan's vaccination stance for people in their low-20s

Deconstructing:

‘Yeah I think for the most part it’s safe to get vaccinated.’

- Rogan fancies himself as someone who looks at data. It is exceedingly safe to get vaccinated. The J&J or Astra Zeneca vaccines have caused 1 death for every 2 million shots (and 2-3 hospitalizations per million), and that's on the high end for the vaccines. Since they know how to treat/diagnose these exceedingly rare clotting conditions, it's fair to theorize a few deaths will be prevented in the future as they were using the wrong drug initially with poor outcomes. Pfizer/Moderna have no even insignificant risks that have cropped up.

“Look, don’t do anything stupid, but you should take care of yourself. You should — if you’re a healthy person, and you’re exercising all the time, and you’re young, and you’re eating well, like, I don’t think you need to worry about this.”

-To this point, if you look at the demographics of the J&J issues it has been 18-49 female with co-morbidities. So, to Rogan's idea here they would be likely not "need to worry about this." On the other side of the spectrum, there are numerous examples of you people some prominent like Jayson Tatum who have "long COVID," and have had to use inhalers and had lingering issues months after COVID. So it would appear there is some reason to "worry about this" especially vis a vis the vaccine. This also completely neglects the highly contagious nature of COVID, which could mean you spread to someone who will have to "worry about this."

Am I missing something with Rogan or is he just saying dumb stuff?[/quote]

Understand what? Your liberal mind is made up and we have seen it on display time and time again. It's ok. No matter what the incoming data is, you are hard core liberal and your posts and replies reveal it. You are the one spewing dumb stuff. Own it. The virus was and continues to be overblown, but hey, place your jabs in when you wish.

China virus wrote:

NERunner00053 wrote:

He's just saying dumb stuff and that's incredibly dangerous when you have that kind of a platform.

You described the MSM and our fear-mongering, serf-serving leaders, so what's your point?

But, but but the MSM basis every single thing that they say and publish off of science. Knuckle dagger

He talks about health all the time but he takes testosterone and clearly eats too much.

Free_the_thigh wrote:

The immunity for the young 20 year old may be just as robust and at a similar risk of death as from the vaccine, but, unlike the vaccine, getting covid also comes with the risk you may spread it to someone else who then dies.

I used this argument on a friend, trying to convince him to get the vaccine and he replied, "but everyone vulnerable to COvid with pre-existing conditions should already have been vaccinated and theoretically at almost zero risk od death. I'm not worried about being responsible for someone else's death when there is 99% survival rate to the disease to being with and then and a vaccine that works on top of that."

And for the record, his fear of the vaccine isn't death it's just that his mother is a nurse and says he grew up his whole life hearing her say, "We used to give that drug to people before they pulled it from the market." He says that type of talk plus there has never been an MRNA vaccine before that makes him nervous. As a young runner, he says he'll take his chances.

I didn't know h ow to respond to that.

rojo wrote:

[quote]Free_the_thigh wrote:

And for the record, his fear of the vaccine isn't death it's just that his mother is a nurse and says he grew up his whole life hearing her say, "We used to give that drug to people before they pulled it from the market." He says that type of talk plus there has never been an MRNA vaccine before that makes him nervous. As a young runner, he says he'll take his chances.

I didn't know how to respond to that.

One of the drugs she may have been talking about was Darvon. It was sold for 53 years (1957 to 2010), before it was declared a dangerous drug and banned by the FDA. Ralph Nader's Health Research Group advocated for a ban on Darvon in 1978.

Before there was HHS, there was HEW. Secretary Joseph Califano knew of Darvon's dangers, yet he refused to act on a ban. That was in 1979, 31 years before a ban finally happened.

"The ruling by Secretary Califano of H.E.W. on the popular pain‐killing drug, Darvon, is enough to give users a nagging headache. Mr. Califano said he would not ban the drug or restrict it, because he lacks enough evidence of hazard or abuse to do so. At the same time, he urged patients, doctors and pharmacists never to use Darvon unless there is no alternative, and then only with care. Since there is almost always an alternative, ranging from aspirin to codeine, his words came close to calling for a ban."

Note that, probably through viral interference, it looks like Covid has knocked out

influenza. Influenza is more dangerous to the young, especially children.

If the Covid vaccine is very effective among the vulnerable (the flu vaccine isn't particularly

good), having background Covid among the non-vulnerable may actually lead to less overall sickness and death--the kids won't be getting flu and also won't be passing that to the

old.

This being a running web site. My kids team has had multiple members get Covid.

All had basically no symptoms and after quarantine (forced rest?) all are running

better than ever. For those that got the vaccine, the side effects were worse than

having Covid (generally knocked 'em out for a couple days, although didn't effect

their running after that).

With all the forced testing at Colleges, I'm sure the general student has seen the same

thing. So why get the vaccine?

Echoing the comment above with the nurse, aren't healthcare workers a high

percentage group for not wanting a vaccine? They would have a lot of experience

with both the effects of Covid and the possible problems with untested drugs.

People trust their own experience first, and with how politicized information has

become, who can blame them.

Don't take Joe Rogan's word on the subject - watch Michael Yeadon's take on the whole covid situation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aek74Lwe72s

For the people who say the vaccine has barely any risk. I don't know how you can explain away thousands of people's personal experience with the vaccines up to this point. Would love to see you try after having a look through go the website posted.

THOUGHTSLEADER wrote:

Am I missing something with Rogan or is he just saying dumb stuff?

Not dumb at all.

If you are young & healthy with a good immune system why would you risk messing it up with a vaccine that is going to interfere with your natural immune system?

I'm not sure how old you are, but things that were thought to be perfectly safe & harmless -even "good for us" 20, 30, 40, or more years ago turned out to be not so good after all.

These mRNA vaccines are the first of their kind. Never before approved for use on human beings. There are zero long term studies of their effects on the human immune system. Scientists are *hoping* that there are no long term ill effects. I agree that in theory, it should be all good. But NOBODY knows for sure. Just like we didn't know blood clotting issues until there was widespread vaccination.

so....

If you're 70 years old, or have immune issues then by all means get that vaccine.

If you're 20 and healthy you may very well want to think twice.

Well said! Finally some common sense on this topic for once. People are so quickly jumping on people who are thinking about whether or not they want to have an experimental product from known corrupt criminal companies and calling them conspiracy theorists or anti-vaxx. It's sad to see the lack of critical thinking from a large portion of the population, as well as the need to judge and harass others for choosing to think for themselves. Whether or not these vaccines are safe and effective, people should have be able to decided for themselves what goes in their bodies.

yawn wrote:

it is not all about me wrote:

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/92191https://www.nbcdfw.com/news/coronavirus/ut-southwestern-identifies-first-cases-of-the-brazil-variant-of-covid-19-in-north-texas/2614803/

Your point? I’m not going to cower every time a variant pops up. Last week it was the South African variant. Now another one. Big deal

If you take the time to look at what I was responding to, then my point is obvious.

I won’t waste my time or yours with your straw man sound byte.

A variant resistant to the vaccines. That’s the reason why. If we’re to defeat this virus and return to normal then it’s imperative that we get the majority of people vaccinated.

Your friend seems to think in very simplistic terms.

Every post until this one focused on the short-term effects of the vaccine. It's the unknown long-term effects that are causing me to take a wait-and-see approach. Right now, on April 27, 2021, zero people have had the Pfizer vaccine for one year. In June, 36 people will have had the Pfizer vaccine for one year. In Dec 2021, 18,600 will have had the vaccine for one year. Not only is that number too small, one year is too short a time frame to determine if there will be any long-term effects of mRNA COVID vaccines.

Experts are rolling the dice that limited short-term effects will translate into limited long-term effects. The truth is that we simply do not know and won't know until 2 to 5 years in the future when look at the prevalence rates for diseases impacted by an impaired immune system... and an impaired immune system affects nearly every major disease.

Most people are unaware of how quickly this vaccine was developed. According to Pfizer, research into a vaccine began in January. The first test subjects were vaccinated in April. That's barely 90 days to develop a brand new vaccine to treat a brand new disease.

I sincerely hope my concerns are unwarranted. Since by summer, over 200 million Americans will be vaccinated, we should know for sure beginning in a couple of years.

^^^^^^^^^

Chicken Little 🐔

The research behind mRNA vaccines began in about 1990. It’s not new. It’s not rushed.

The technology has been in research for decades and almost implemented with SARS until we didn’t really need a vaccine.

So it wasn’t too difficult to use that foundation to create a COVID vaccine.

99% of the work was already done.

The fear mongering among vaccines is crazy. You can literally go to pubmed and spend days reading about every step along the research path.

China Joe wrote:

Don't take Joe Rogan's word on the subject - watch Michael Yeadon's take on the whole covid situation.

I don't have 30 minutes. Can you give us a summary of what he says?

saucecapades wrote:

The research behind mRNA vaccines began in about 1990. It’s not new. It’s not rushed.

The technology has been in research for decades and almost implemented with SARS until we didn’t really need a vaccine.

So it wasn’t too difficult to use that foundation to create a COVID vaccine.

99% of the work was already done.

The fear mongering among vaccines is crazy. You can literally go to pubmed and spend days reading about every step along the research path.

Okay, so how did the animal/human trials with the mRNA vaccines go?

They've been in development since 1990? Perfect! Can you show us the long term safety data from the development?

it is not all about me wrote:

yawn wrote:

Your point? I’m not going to cower every time a variant pops up. Last week it was the South African variant. Now another one. Big deal

If you take the time to look at what I was responding to, then my point is obvious.

I won’t waste my time or yours with your straw man sound byte.

Typical, just try and accuse someone of straw man nonsense. What next? Gonna say I’m gaslighting you?

Texas is an example all states should follow.

If you think this is dumb you're gonna love when Gordon Ryan appears on his show