Rest between threshold reps

I think 30 second rest is too little, and it makes the workout harder than it's supposed to be. I'd do 1 minute rest for anything from 800-1k, even sometimes up to 1600 meters. And two or three minutes for 2 or 3 mile reps (or 3k/5k reps). So longer rest for longer interval, but still not full recovery. If you do too little rest as I said, it makes the workout too hard and it's not something you'd want to do all the time. If you're worried about going too fast because you have too much rest then you need to work on your pacing. Basically you're saying you race every workout since you go as fast as you can, and taking too much of a break allows you to go extra fast. Don't race every workout. If it was good to race every workout then just do an actual race, but we all know that's not a good idea.

+1

1 min slow jog for 800m/1K threshold reps

90 sec for mile/2K threshold reps

2 min for 2 mile / 3K threshold reps

Run at current threshold pace only. Faster is too fast.

No, I do not race it. I go by the steady state feel, but with longer rest this feel does not come until longer into the rep.

yes I have a hard time not running faster in the start. Btw I do 20 sec , not 30

My average pace is almost the same with 1k as with 2k reps and just 20s jog. If I do shorter reps I can increase the pace though. I run comfortably hard and can do this pace also with continuous running. 30 min work is fine, 40min work will feel harder but attainable, 50 or 60min work will need a slightly slower pace to hit the splits. I am quite certain I do not race and break the threshold pace.

Given that I think I can hit the threshold pace, I do not understand what I gain from long rest as you suggest. I do not really need the rest since I can do this pace with very long reps or even as a tempo? There should be no lactate to remove either. Do you have long rest to hit a faster pace than the 1h threshold pace ?

As I say, the 20s break is maybe just a psychological breakup for me rather than really needed.

If I run according to pulse, I am able to control that the effort does not exceed what I am supposed to do. I get where you are coming from. I too do struggle with feeling fresh in the beginning of a new rep. The way I do it is trying to hit the correct effort, then I'll check the watch when I have run for about 1 minutes. Then I will usually be somewhere around my target heart rate. If too high, I adjust the effort.

I think that the rest doesn't really matter for the workout you're describing. If it's basically just a long tempo with a few breaks to keep the right pace/ feel good, 20 seconds is fine if it feels like it's enough.

20s is Fine wrote:

I think that the rest doesn't really matter for the workout you're describing. If it's basically just a long tempo with a few breaks to keep the right pace/ feel good, 20 seconds is fine if it feels like it's enough.

I am thinking the same regarding my workout.

Run6556 wrote:

If I run according to pulse, I am able to control that the effort does not exceed what I am supposed to do. I get where you are coming from. I too do struggle with feeling fresh in the beginning of a new rep. The way I do it is trying to hit the correct effort, then I'll check the watch when I have run for about 1 minutes. Then I will usually be somewhere around my target heart rate. If too high, I adjust the effort.

I have used HR previously, but it varies a little too much (not within a workout, but over days/weeks). Some weeks my threshold HR is 167, other weeks 169, then earlier in the day 165 so I get into the ballpark, but feel is more spot on (and adaptable to how I feel that specific day).

I do not have the same pace problems with faster reps since I can feel the effort much better then, but at threshold, the feel does not come immediately, it comes as you say after a minute.

I actually look more to cadence than HR. I could actually control my effort better with keeping a steady cadence. that could work.

Canova prescribed in an old post on 5k training that he preferred continuous work at threshold pace and did not use reps until at 10k/CV/30min race pace and faster. His point was that your goal is to endure a continuous effort for a long time to support faster paces. He is of course right, but we can of course also use workouts that are not continuous to ease the load, but still hit a high volume. Ingebrigtsens are using that philosophy, by the use of reps at 6 down to 60 sec and rest from 60s to 30s. Shorter work will make it possible to hit faster paces without accumulating lactate above the 3-4 mmol level. It seems also to work building a really solid aerobic base to run fast for 2 to 30 minutes and probably also longer (but none of them have raced longer). Obviously, longer rest will make it possible to hit slightly faster reps given they are not too long. My workouts are also aimed at hitting the 1h threshold pace since I have other workouts to do faster work and activating faster muscle fibres.

The question is if longer rest and great pace control could lead to less load from the same milage of threshold compared to continuous or almost continuous (as I do with 20s)

Personally, if threshold is one hour pace (so what most people subscribe to, including Jack Daniel, whose training I tend to follow), I do not think 30 seconds is enough rest for 30+ min of T work. Either you are running your reps too slow or I am running them too fast!

Tanner Swift wrote:

Personally, if threshold is one hour pace (so what most people subscribe to, including Jack Daniel, whose training I tend to follow), I do not think 30 seconds is enough rest for 30+ min of T work. Either you are running your reps too slow or I am running them too fast!

Interesting question. I feel it would be very hard to maintain the pace I do for a 30 min workout for 60 min, but then race pace is not supposed to be easy either.. I have tried to do 45-50-55-60min of threshold work but I guess I have eased down the pace some then. I have also positively experienced that I can maintain the pace I believe I can hold, more easily than I think.

I have not measured the lactate so I just anticipate what the feel should be. I have raced a lot, but I guess I mentally is a guy who always have a reserve or margin and seldom just goes for it. It could very well be I am on the easy side with some seconds per km, but then threshold work is a zone and not an exact pace so I guess I receive the adaptations anyway. What is clear is that just slightly faster is much harder (10s pr km costs a lot more). That tells me I not that far off, I believe.

Actually I think it should be possible to do 50-60% of a race distance at the race pace and "any" day. So 2.5-3km at 5k pace or 5-6km at 10k pace or 30-40min at threshold pace should be possible to do in training. One should not be exhausted, but of course it might be hard work. With that view, it is not impossible to do 30-40min of threshold work with just 20s rest

Wondering what the best rest time for 1600/mile repeats at threshold in the low 5:0x range is. I typically hit 75s but on occasion do 60s or 90s.

When you start running you're not instantly creating lactic acid. But the goal is that you want a high percentage of your workout to be at your lactic threshold heartrate. So for short threshold reps like 800 meters you want shorter rest so that you're not getting a big recovery that takes a portion of your next rep to get back to that heart rate. But for longer reps it doesn't really matter what your recovery is, since burning 200 meters to get the heart rate back up doesn't really matter in long 2+ mile threshold reps.

Doing a jog rest would allow you to have a longer rest when doing short reps since your heart rate doesn't come completely down. So instead of a 1 minute standing rest you could do a 2 minute jog rest and still get your heart rate up quick enough on the next rep.

Marius Bakken recommends a 3:1 work/rest ratio.