Key workouts to indicate sub 2:45 marathon shape?

You are on the right track. I still like at least one big workout like this...

4-5 miles warmup

3x 5 miles at MP with 2-3 min jog between

Do it about 3 weeks out as your last truly big workout.

^^^That is a good one.

Does anyone incorporate fast finish long runs with the fast finish part at half marathon pace or slightly faster?

So like 15-16 mi easy and then the last 4-5 at faster than MP.

Canova's long intervals were a game changer for me. I don't recall the progression exactly, but you go from a set of 3k intervals a bit faster than MP with a 1k at a decent pace (MP +30ish second) up to 6k intervals a little over MP with the same 1k rest pace. I think the longest workout is up to 25k total.

Another good one is 10x1k closer to HMP with 1k rest in between at 20-30 sec below MP so you average just under MP for 19k. That one should be saved for your hardest workout after mileage peaks.

I found than when I was running in the 2:40s, fast workouts were never a good indication of marathon fitness. 6xmile at HP seemed very easy in peak marathon shape. It was always the really long workouts that exposed weaknesses in my endurance.

Precious Roy wrote:

Canova's long intervals were a game changer for me. I don't recall the progression exactly, but you go from a set of 3k intervals a bit faster than MP with a 1k at a decent pace (MP +30ish second) up to 6k intervals a little over MP with the same 1k rest pace. I think the longest workout is up to 25k total.

Another good one is 10x1k closer to HMP with 1k rest in between at 20-30 sec below MP so you average just under MP for 19k. That one should be saved for your hardest workout after mileage peaks.

I found than when I was running in the 2:40s, fast workouts were never a good indication of marathon fitness. 6xmile at HP seemed very easy in peak marathon shape. It was always the really long workouts that exposed weaknesses in my endurance.

Yes. The callusing of the longer workouts made a big difference for me as well.

Regarding the fast finish long run....

I played with this after reading about Khannouchi finishing his long runs very fast. I could run the last 6 miles of a 22 miler at half marathon pace and even faster at the end. Though I wasn't spending as much time at marathon pace. I think the other difference is the a world class runner is also training to "race" at the end (drop some 4:30s or whatever), while running 2:30-2:45 we are probably training to run the most even pace and effort.

Yeah 1:17-18 half.

10 mile tempo (comfortably hard) in a long run @ 6:05-6:10. Shouldn't leave you feeling wrecked.

ParkwayKing wrote:

For those who run sub 2:45, what are some key workouts to indicate ability?

Sub 1:18 half?

20 milers with last 10 sub 6:15?

5 x 18. Winner every time.

3 weeks out.

Last long run -

2mile w/u,

5,4,3,2,1 mile with 1 mile recovery between each and 2 mile c/d at the end

People talk often about Yasso 800's. 10 X 800m reps off equal recovery. Supposed to take your average rep in minutes:seconds and that should be close to your Marathon time in hours:minutes. I've known people do this and it seems vaguely accurate, although maybe a little optimistic. If you could do this session and average maybe 2:42 or so then you're definitely looking good for sub-2:45.

When I was running sub 2:45 I would do 10 miler steady state runs in 61-62 mins without much strain.

One workout suggestion I would say is starting with like 2 miles warmup, then 6 miles at just above marathon pace, then 6 miles at closer to half marathon pace

Research has indicated that the marathon (and the half-marathon also) is 99% I did three key workouts every week for the two months leading up to the race: Depending upon your experience and fitness level, you might run more than I intentionally went a little faster because I knew I could run in the 2:40-2:45 range.

British Guy wrote:

People talk often about Yasso 800's. 10 X 800m reps off equal recovery. Supposed to take your average rep in minutes:seconds and that should be close to your Marathon time in hours:minutes. I've known people do this and it seems vaguely accurate, although maybe a little optimistic. If you could do this session and average maybe 2:42 or so then you're definitely looking good for sub-2:45.

No way. This 'predictor' is just some number magic that has no real foundation. My pb is 238 and I can likely race a sub-245 any weekend, give me a week's notice and I'll be like 100% confident. 240-245 800s are hard when inserted in a good training week and I'd probably quit after doing 6 or 8. Or finish the workout and puke. That's pretty normal as the marathon and 800s use very different energy systems, stride styles, heck even shoes, I won't be running the 800s in modern high-stack marathon racers.

I think we need to know something about your training.

1:18 HM and consistently 70mpw, you're probably pretty close to the mark.

ParkwayKing wrote:

For those who run sub 2:45, what are some key workouts to indicate ability?

Sub 1:18 half?

20 milers with last 10 sub 6:15?

1x26.2 @2:44pace. Good luck!

rcjason had some good tips in this thread. Check it out.

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=8172432