Mary Cain's running career is going nowhere

No four year bans out there for being an obnoxious insensitive jerk.

Salazar's doping violations are worse, but for Cain the fat shaming and was as at least as destructive as his idiotic coaching. Not saying he is pure evil, but he did find the gray area.

Bra-ket wrote:

haven't read the thread but Rojo should restore Flvmmox's (i think) post with A*** K********'s twitter bio, it was funny and pertinent

i think it was offensive to the primary userbase of this website

Her career was not going anywhere since she hit puberty. Grew some boobs, waist and hips, this happens to young girls all the time, that's just genetics.

Flotrack rocks wrote:

Please provide a study. East Africans have tiny calves.

"Giladi et al. [6], analyzed 300 military recruits, and found 2 independent variables in the anatomy considered major risk factors for stress fracture. These include a narrow width of the tibia and increased exorotation at the hip joint. A study performed by Bennell et al. [7]reported that female running athletes with stress fractures had a smaller calf circumference and less lean muscle mass in the lower limb. This correlates with Garrett [8]. who have shown that one of the major role of the calf muscles is energy absorption. A cross-sectional study comparing 23 running athletes with a history of tibial stress fracture and 23 who have never sustained a stress fracture found that the stress fracture group had a significantly smaller tibial cross-sectional on computed tomography than the non-stress fracture group [9]. "

Runners Connect also says in their article on stress fractures that having strong, muscular calves helps in the prevention of stress fractures.

Are you serious? Athletes need to be treated like athletes... So sex doesn't matter in rendering opinions? So Doina Melinte wasn't worth anything because she can't beat Hocker indoors. Seriously???? Um. There is a sliding scale. Accordingly, men should not comment on female runner physique unless doing so is helpful and not patronizing or shaming.

high school xc coach wrote:

Stoppit Smith wrote:

Ok. So I'll ask this accepting the premise that JaMarcus Russell received more hate across more boards for not being Pro-Ready after becoming a pro...

Isn't it infinitely more acceptable morally for grown men to throw a point of criticism at Russell, considering it is men insulting men, than it is for men to criticize Mary Cain, especially regarding body shape and weight?

athletes need to be treated as athletes. not boys or girls. especially on the professional level.

dsrunner wrote:

No four year bans out there for being an obnoxious insensitive jerk.

Salazar's doping violations are worse, but for Cain the fat shaming and was as at least as destructive as his idiotic coaching. Not saying he is pure evil, but he did find the gray area.

Well, he is currently also banned by SafeSport for his abuse. Temporary at this point; we'll see what the final verdict will be.

Looks like crossing the red line, like with his doping infractions, not just gray area.

The past is the past --- let it rest in peace.

Going forward..........is she with a group of runners pursuing excellence? No, she is going solo. Even Frank Shorter had the Florida Track Club. Nike is done, but what about Ray Treacy or Frank Gagliano who I believe are with other companies/teams....perhaps Mary, nice kid and all, chooses to make herself un-coachable. Not knocking her current coach but where are the teammates in that situation,,,,, Shorter had Jack Bachelor and Barry Brown etc. etc..Muhammed Ali had Angelo Dundee and several world class sparring partners.....spare me the weight issues....train your asse off with the right people causes proper results.

w0efuu wrote:

The past is the past --- let it rest in peace.

Going forward..........is she with a group of runners pursuing excellence? No, she is going solo. Even Frank Shorter had the Florida Track Club. Nike is done, but what about Ray Treacy or Frank Gagliano who I believe are with other companies/teams....perhaps Mary, nice kid and all, chooses to make herself un-coachable. Not knocking her current coach but where are the teammates in that situation,,,,, Shorter had Jack Bachelor and Barry Brown etc. etc..Muhammed Ali had Angelo Dundee and several world class sparring partners.....spare me the weight issues....train your asse off with the right people causes proper results.

Muhammad Ali?

Jack Bacheler?

Some of you shouldn't post.

You try to sound intelligent but...no.

Mary tried hard. Patriarchy broke her spirit.

I'd argue with you but you need help from the start.

she should have went to college instead of going pro ... tsk

College would have been a disaster for her coach.

So how would you help her in the future you don't have a clue

Flotrack rocks wrote:

College would have been a disaster for her coach.

Why? If I was her coach, I would give her the workouts, her weight and performance would take care of themselves and I would be glad to have her on the team. We're talking distance running and not football at Alabama.

high school xc coach wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Why? If I was her coach, I would give her the workouts, her weight and performance would take care of themselves and I would be glad to have her on the team. We're talking distance running and not football at Alabama.

because she would have done worse than she did in high school and the college coach would have been blamed for it. NO. MATTER. WHAT.

There have countless blue chip recruits that didn't pan out and it's rarely the fault of the coach. However, being a jerk can get you fired.

None at her level. And she would have blamed the coach and created drama.

Screaming your point doesn't make you more correct.

Being a high school xc coach doesn't guarantee that you're a good one.

I may be a nerd but at least I can speak with the verbal acuity of someone with an education.

You're ...well just a coach.

Eh.

Nothing to see here...or at whatever school you are coaching.

i think she should have concentrated on 800's and even 400's to work on her speed.Then stepped up to 1500's later on.forget the 5000.

He tried. He tried to weight shame her. Didn't work. The fact is you need to shed every extra pound you possibly can. I've had springs where my power has increased significantly over the winter and my pace has plunged. They don't give you medals by looking at your power meter. Drop those ten pounds and your power still stays about the same. W/KG increases dramatically,. Sad fact, they give medals based on weight. Why aren't there hardly any 160lb, 5 percent body fat men in the elites? You already know why. I know there have been exceptions, but doesn't it seem possible that 5 percent of the elites could come from the other 97 percent of the population who aren't under 145lbs?! They are called the talented elites, not weight based elites. I mean 145lbs is a ridiculously low weight for a man. Go to Wisconsin if you don't believe me! You might have fought like heck to increase your CP by 5 watts over the last 6 months and you've totally killed that plus 20 seconds a mile by weight gain., even if much of it is muscle Kenyans know this and don't lift weights because of it. Now lose the 10lbs and watch your speed go crazy.. You haven't got in any better shape, you just have a lighter load to carry. Look at the records being set by 115lb men and 86lb women,

The closest thing I can assimilate this sport is to an MPG competition. How far can you on 5 gallons of fuel. It has little to do with speed. A 65 second quarter is not fast. A 43 seconds one is, Distance running is an efficiency competition, not a speed competition. I'm certainly in the top 10 in the nation in my decrepit age group, and I've acquired a crap load of running knowledge. I've grown to accept that knowing why you run the pace you do is the most important thing. The great thing about having a large bone structure, and thus more muscle weight to support it, is that I can dominate in my 50s because my body can stand up to the punishment. Those with petite bone structures have all kinds of back and achilles issues over 40. I'm not worried in the slightest about the skinny minnies in myage group cause they can no longer complete the training. Most were getting injuries in their 20s and I've never had a running related injury.

One thing about Salazar and his training is that he really does seem

to march to his own drummer.

Better or worse performance on taking him as a coach, in this group

at least, seems to focus on doping (of course everything seems to be

doping in this group), but take Rupp.

He has been basically a professional running since he was like 16

under Salazar, yet he takes on a new coach and apparently, almost

immediately, is doing workouts he's never done before.

So just taking the mechanics of training and not the mental stuff, it is

possible Cain might have done better under a different coach.

Flotrack rocks wrote:

None at her level. And she would have blamed the coach and created drama.

None at her level? What about Jeff Nelson, Rich Kimball and Sarah Baxter?

If I gave her the same workouts as everyone else on the team and didn't berate her over her weight, she there wouldn't have been blaming anyone or creating any drama. Suffering 5 stress fractures from running at an unhealthy weight should not have happened and it's understandable she would be upset about it. Her reaction does not mean she is an uncoachable malcontent. Why do you have such a low opinion of someone you've never met?