How do people have such a large range?? 800-10k??

Because they’re one of the few runners that were great athletes before they got into track. Most distance runners were the most unathletic kids. The people who have that range were the athletes. Hence the 800m times then they worked their ass off on the mileage to get in the kind of shape to run the 10k.

specialize wrote:

"If Cole Hocker broke 13:30 I'd be surprised, and it would be a great time for his level. He is nowhere near 13:15 shape. I don't know where you think Ingebrigtsen could pull 12:50 from either. He's never broken 13:00 so to get close to 12:50 he'd have to train specifically for the 5000m. Like I said, the only athletes I've ever seen who have crazy range at any given moment are Hassan and Farah. Alan Webb ran a good 10k, once. I think even he has said he doesn't think he could have done it again so let's distinguish between someone having a good race and having good range. "

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Hocker: I think he this season has potential to go AT LEAST

3:31 in the 1500m

7:35 in the 3000m

13:15 in the 5000,

if he joins some fast, well paced races (DL Monaco, Rome or similar).

Jakob: He has run very few 5000m´s and only one (DL Londom 2019 )with pacing so his 13:02 set almost 2 years ago isn´t representative for his ability. Even after his 13:02 many observers agreed he would have been faster if the pacemakers had held the time schedule.

Jakob´s 3:28.68 in the 1500m and 7:27 in the 3000m last year indicate a sub 12:50 5000m.

And I suppose that he - as usual - is one level up from last year so barring illness and injury he can possibly go at least 12:45 if he joins a fast well paced 5000m.

Remember: Before DL Rome last year Jakob hadn´t broke 8:00 outdoors in the 3000m which some of you held against him until he broke 8:00 with almost 33 seconds!

I think as others have mentioned. The key is running from a strong mileage base. If you are a strength runner you can build speed leading up to an 800m event but still have the endurance to run a decent 10K. However, I don't think it is possible to excel (to the best of an individuals ability) in all of those events over the same training cycle.

illtellya wrote:

Because they’re one of the few runners that were great athletes before they got into track. Most distance runners were the most unathletic kids.

Not sure about Mo but Hassan is not particularly athletic. Klosterhalfen is among the least athletic types imaginable but at 19 she was top 5 in world under 20 listing from 800m 2:01.5 through 10k road race 32:24.

Of course it is a bit easier for women because the fields are not as deep and the 800m more aerobic. But the main thing seems to have at least decent natural speed and extraordinary natural endurance.

Do you ever get this with sprinters, i.e. 60m to 400m?

specialize wrote:

migrant wrote:

Hocker can run 1:46/13:15 today. Jakob can run 1:46/12:50 today. Hasan is world class in 800-1/2M on the same training.

If Cole Hocker broke 13:30 I'd be surprised, and it would be a great time for his level. He is nowhere near 13:15 shape. I don't know where you think Ingebrigtsen could pull 12:50 from either. He's never broken 13:00 so to get close to 12:50 he'd have to train specifically for the 5000m. Like I said, the only athletes I've ever seen who have crazy range at any given moment are Hassan and Farah. Alan Webb ran a good 10k, once. I think even he has said he doesn't think he could have done it again so let's distinguish between someone having a good race and having good range.

Morgan McDonald ran 13:15 while he was still in college. Hocker is at least as good as he is or rather has more upside and many would argue he should turn out better. I'm not gonna say Jakob is in 12:50 shape right now but I would not even be a little bit surprised if his lifetime pr ends up under 12:50. He's still very young.

On Hassan...I don't even like to talk about her range as I believe it's highly suspect and I'll leave it at that.

wammy was my hamster wrote:

Because it's all largely aerobic.

This is 90% of the answer. It's a bit like asking why Decathletes are so good at 9 power events and ok at 1 endurance event.

I find it weird when someone has NO range. As an example, I ran a 1:51 800m but could only manage a 50.7 400m and 4:01 1500m. I only got worse the shorter or longer I went.

specialize wrote:

I think having good range is overrated, unless the aim is mediocrity. I can think of only two people at elite level who have the kind of range you describe: Sifan Hassan and Mo Farah.

Saïd Aouita? Khalid Skah? Haile G? K Bekele?

jiggymeister wrote:

specialize wrote:

I think having good range is overrated, unless the aim is mediocrity. I can think of only two people at elite level who have the kind of range you describe: Sifan Hassan and Mo Farah.

Saïd Aouita? Khalid Skah? Haile G? K Bekele?

Or Augustine Choge...

800 Metres 1:44.86 Ostrava (CZE) 17 JUN 2009 1178

1500 Metres 3:29.47 Olympiastadion, Berlin (GER) 14 JUN 2009 1252

One Mile 3:50.01 Olympic Stadium, London (GBR) 27 JUL 2013 1201

3000 Metres 7:28.76 Suhaim bin Hamad Stadium, Doha (QAT) 06 MAY 2011 1247

5000 Metres 12:53.66 Stadio Olimpico, Roma (ITA) 08 JUL 2005 1233

10,000 Metres 28:22.8h Nairobi (KEN) 22 APR 2016 1097

59:26 in the half too...

Has dropped out of some marathons. Would love to see him finish one & clock a decent time.

Training to be good at the mile requires a large range.

I managed 1:49 in the 800 and 31 flat for the 10K and probably would have run mid to low 30's.

For me, it started with sprinting and moving up. Running a good pace for 6 miles helps your base training for mile.

And that got me around 4 flat for the mile.

Aouita got an Olympic medal in the 800 and a number one world ranking in the 10,000.

But he was world record holder in the 1500 (and 2000, 2 mile, 3000, and 5000).

But the thing you never see is someone hitting the Olympic standard in both the 400 and the 1500.

Has anyone ever run a 44 and a 3:35? I don't think so.

Star wrote:

Training to be good at the mile requires a large range.

I managed 1:49 in the 800 and 31 flat for the 10K and probably would have run mid to low 30's.

For me, it started with sprinting and moving up. Running a good pace for 6 miles helps your base training for mile.

And that got me around 4 flat for the mile.

Aouita got an Olympic medal in the 800 and a number one world ranking in the 10,000.

But he was world record holder in the 1500 (and 2000, 2 mile, 3000, and 5000).

But the thing you never see is someone hitting the Olympic standard in both the 400 and the 1500.

Has anyone ever run a 44 and a 3:35? I don't think so.

brazier thinks he is that guy, but not close. amos and rudisha would have the best chances for this feat.

Eric Jenkins (or was it Ricky Rocksford) ran 13:07 right after college. Remember that.

Tom Farrell, Diego Estrada, and NORTHEASTERN Eric Jenkins all ran sub-13:20 mid-season at Stanford.

For sprinters, range is usually noted by the sub-10, sub-22, sub-44 club. For distance runners, it’s the sub-4/sub-2:10 club. Of course, the change in specificity for the distance runners would probably result in the loss of their ability to do BOTH in the same given training block.

Bolt ran 45point at 16, but would have done it if he continued running the 4. Van Niekerk did it.

Martin Hehir and Galen Rupp are two examples of sub-4/sub-2:10. Although they may not have been able to do both simultaneously, a BODY and MIND willing itself to do both is a feat, no matter when the two happened in a given lifetime.

Were people really this dumb back then? Hocker not breaking 13:30 and Jakob's limit being 13:02?

Because you love J Ingebrigtsen does not mean he is not flawed.

Range talk is a waste of time. There has not been a male T&F athlete going back 60 years who was elite at 800m to 10000m at the same time. Maybe a female or two since women participation in athletics has been relatively limited. Prime child-bearing years are the same as prime T&F years.

Yes. Imagine somebody thinking Nico could beat Jakob for 5000 meters.

In 1986, Aouita was ranked #1 in the world in the 5000m and 10000m and #4 in the 1500/mile. Although he did not race 800m that year, it is reasonable to suppose, based on his 800m times the years preceding and following, and his 3:50 mile, that he could have been in the mix over 800m in 86 had he chosen to race one.

I was thinking about Said Aouita while I posted. Have you participated in XC and T&F? It is possible to be a 1500m/5000m athlete simultaneously. It is possible to be an 800/1500m athlete simultaneously. It is NOT possible to simultaneously be an elite 800m to 10000m male athlete. As I stated it my first post, it different for women.