Yes or No: ivy league “athletes” are sissies

That is true of most schools outside of the P5 conferences. Sure there will be a few outliers who end up at nationals but at the end of the day most mid-major athletes are competing at a D2 or D3 level.

There are many Ivy men and women every year who would beat many of the P5 athletes. They are legit D1 programs that you all wish you could go to. Fast and smart and top of the food chain.

Nice try.

anyone actually know the numbers? wrote:

There are many Ivy men and women every year who would beat many of the P5 athletes. They are legit D1 programs that you all wish you could go to. Fast and smart and top of the food chain.

Nice try.

Kyle Merber (Columbia, '12):

3:34 1500

Johnny Gregorek (Columbia '15)

3:49 mile

Find me a pair of other D1 athletes from another single institution from the 2010s to match similar marks in mid d events.

There may be several I'm sure but these two alone could match up with any other pair currently.

Last time an Ivy program was on the podium or even top 10 at xc nationals? One of Lannana's Dartmouth squads? Hell, do they ever qualify more than one team per gender? It's a squarely G5 level conference.

BOHICA wrote:

Last time an Ivy program was on the podium or even top 10 at xc nationals? One of Lannana's Dartmouth squads? Hell, do they ever qualify more than one team per gender? It's a squarely G5 level conference.

Probably less time since a Pac10 has won a NCAA football championship. Or Nebraska. You know, G5 football, squarely.

(2018&2019xc nationals each had 3w&1m teams.

Not far off, but in each of those seasons ivys beat some very good teams. Similar to the service academies, these students are there for other reasons than running as a primary focus.)

'Merican wrote:

anyone actually know the numbers? wrote:

There are many Ivy men and women every year who would beat many of the P5 athletes. They are legit D1 programs that you all wish you could go to. Fast and smart and top of the food chain.

Nice try.

Kyle Merber (Columbia, '12):

3:34 1500

Johnny Gregorek (Columbia '15)

3:49 mile

Find me a pair of other D1 athletes from another single institution from the 2010s to match similar marks in mid d events.

There may be several I'm sure but these two alone could match up with any other pair currently.

Oregon pretty much every year from 2010-2019.

yessirskiii wrote:

'Merican wrote:

Kyle Merber (Columbia, '12):

3:34 1500

Johnny Gregorek (Columbia '15)

3:49 mile

Find me a pair of other D1 athletes from another single institution from the 2010s to match similar marks in mid d events.

There may be several I'm sure but these two alone could match up with any other pair currently.

Oregon pretty much every year from 2010-2019.

...and I would expect such from Oregon but who else?

BTW, the Ducks picked up Gregorek for a season following his graduation at Columbia.

Abby D and Cabral both literally won NCAA titles...

'Merican wrote:

BOHICA wrote:

Last time an Ivy program was on the podium or even top 10 at xc nationals? One of Lannana's Dartmouth squads? Hell, do they ever qualify more than one team per gender? It's a squarely G5 level conference.

Probably less time since a Pac10 has won a NCAA football championship.

Ivy team made the podium at xc nationals since 2004? I know Princeton women with Cack Ferrell were good, just not remembering the year.

BOHICA wrote:

'Merican wrote:

Probably less time since a Pac10 has won a NCAA football championship.

Ivy team made the podium at xc nationals since 2004? I know Princeton women with Cack Ferrell were good, just not remembering the year.

They were 5th in '08 and '09.

The last Ivy team on the podium was Dartmouth women in '97.

There's a lot to say on the Ivies, but here's my take:

1. Their teams are not as good as P5 schools. Obviously, there are exceptions, but on the whole, they cannot compete at the national level as a team.

2. This does not make them bad. All the Ivies are still top 50% of D1 programs, and there are usually multiple Ivy teams from both genders at the national meet.

3. They also produce top individuals. Some have already been mentioned, but the Ivy League has produced many sub-4:00 milers, All-Americans, and national champions. This indicates it's not that the coaching is bad or the program is bad, but rather there are other factors playing into their lack of team success.

4. No other D1 school has the barriers to success that the Ivies do. The academics are extremely rigorous, yes, but the more important thing is the complete lack of athletic scholarships. Sure, they can get good athletes to come there for the academics, but for the actual TOP athletes, they'll never pull them. Why would a 4:05 junior commit there when Stanford is offering him 50-75% and is the same quality school? And even if a runner like that doesn't go for Stanford, schools like UCLA, Notre Dame, Duke, Georgetown, Villanova, Michigan, UVA, UNC, etc. etc. are only one step down academically and have plenty of money to go around. So you end up with a lot of good, but not great, athletes headed to the Ivies. 1:51-1:53, 4:10-4:15, 9:00-9:20, etc. Some of them, like Kyle Merber (1:53 and 4:12) and Kieran Tuntivate (4:11 and 9:06) go on to run very fast in college. But for the most part, guys like these will not break 4:00 even if they have a great collegiate career, and then once you factor in the academic casualties you see why Ivies struggle to even get more than a couple athletes under 4:05 and are never competitive as a team on the national level.

Takes a very unique athlete to end up in the ivy league

1. Have to pass admissions

2. Have to afford it and have parents that can actually pony up and not make excuses why they aren't willing to pay for it or just don't have the liquidity to make it happen. Having a big 401k is nothing to be ashamed of but it does work against you if you want Ivy league financial help.

3. Have to be a good enough athlete

Check all three of those and you are in and then you have to want to actually go there. #1 shuts down most kids even if they can get past #2, #3. There are plenty of ivy league haters which is really, about I can't check all three boxes above. Calling Ivy leaguers names or saying it's a waste of money is not much of a real position on the matter.

True. But have you seen the last two years distance recruiting classes at Princeton and Harvard? They’re good. Also two very good distance coaches in place at both of those schools.

Tarrare wrote:

They sound like the type to have preferred pronouns in their social media bios.

As a proud Boomer, I didn't know that was a thing until I started to see the pronouns in the signature line of emails. Will the gender issue trickle down to our pets, or will we continue to stick with "Good Boy" or "Good Girl" depending on the gender assigned to our cats and dogs at birth? Do our pets even have the capacity to be cognitive of their gender?

This thread is about athletes. Very few Ivy athletes are good enough for real D1 teams.

What is a “real” D1 team?

There are also many D2 and D3 men and women who would podium at the Ivy League conference meet. Some of which would win events without much of a struggle. The same goes for most D1 conferences outside of the P5 schools.

Runners run and I save wrote:

This thread is about athletes. Very few Ivy athletes are good enough for real D1 teams.

Laughable.

Have you seen the rosters of other D1 programs?

Not talking OU, A&M, NAU etc but easily, the Ivys have lots on their rosters that could, and were offered spots at D1 and P5 schools.

....You seem to have a chip on your shoulder, no?

Runners run and I save wrote:

This thread is about athletes. Very few Ivy athletes are good enough for real D1 teams.

How many real D1 Teams are there?

Another thing people often forget when judging Ivy teams' success at nationals is that the Ivy League does not allow 5th year athletes. In distance running age is a huge factor towards improvement, and most other D1 programs benefit from 5th year athletes on their rosters. The Ivies compete without the benefit of the extra year. That extra year of development puts Ivies at a huge disadvantage competitively in distance running. Most runners are better as they are graduating than when they showed up, and I'm sure Ivy coaches would love to have their studs stick around one more year. So an Ivy team that places in the teens at nationals is in theory missing 1 or 2 of their top guys/gals compared to P5 rosters, because those athletes were forced to graduate and leave after their senior season.