Good marathon track workout 20-25 days out? 12 x 800 alternating 5k/M/15k pace no rest

Why not do alt miles/k's instead? These would be more suited for marathon than 800s.

For example: 6 mile workout alternating pace each mile 10k/M/10k/M/10k/M

I think it is too much volume at speed and I'm not sure what you gain by running 800M at marathon pace. 6 x 1000M or 5 x mile would be more appropriate for marathon prep. If you are trying to spend time at your marathon pace doing it for 2 to 4 miles would be more valuable than 800M. Something like 3 x 3 miles or 2 x4 at marathon pace without the faster stuff, by itself - tempo with a different training effect but long enough so you get a feel for race pace. Your goal race time is 6:29/mile pace. I don't know what the experts would say but doing 1000M or miles at say 5:45 or 5:50 pace should improve your efficiency at your targeted race pace

Agree with the other 2 comments. Mile or longer repeats at MP or a bit quicker would be a better option. Caution: not all out. Pace should be easy and comfortable for you. Good luck!

the boredom wrote:

Why not do alt miles/k's instead? These would be more suited for marathon than 800s.

For example: 6 mile workout alternating pace each mile 10k/M/10k/M/10k/M

Yeah. I assume the idea is to generate some lactate and clear it at race pace. 5k pace might be a bit too hard while HM isn't really hard enough.

This seems like a bad idea.

Basically, your idea is to run 3 miles @ MP, take a short rest, and then run 6 miles @ HM, except you'd actually be alternating HM + 17 with HM - 8/HM - 17.

6 miles @ HM is already an intense workout. Add 3 miles MP on the front? Seems dubious. It's the alternations up to tempo and 5K (!!??) pace with MP rests that take this into the realm of epic bad ideas.

Currently training for a marathon and my final workout will be 3* 1km at 95% MP/7km at MP... Although, I have been building up to this workout with similar workouts every fortnight, so I wouldn't suggest going straight into this.

It's really hard for anyone to say what your final workout should be without understanding what your training has been and what the structure of your other sessions have been. I would suggest that you're not suddenly going to make or break your marathon performance this close to the race... I would do some threshold miles if I were you this could either be something like;

14 miles with 8 at around 6 minute pace

or

8* 1mile at 6 minute pace off 30 seconds

(I'm assuming that your threshold is around 6 minute pace)

Here is an idea; 1 mile at 5k pace, 1mile at 10k pace and 1 mile 1\2 marathon pace, repeat with no rest. Its a mental edge and 6 miles of work.

Don't worry too much about a single workout. It doesn't really matter on it's own. Worry about the body of work you've done leading up to this point. I think it's too much, like others have said. Sounds overly complicated for no particular reason.

The only work out that should be in that time period is 15-20miles at race pace surrounded by a lot of recovery

the boredom wrote:

Why not do alt miles/k's instead? These would be more suited for marathon than 800s.

For example: 6 mile workout alternating pace each mile 10k/M/10k/M/10k/M

I like this better. No need to risk 5k pace. Better to get an average right at threshold. Alternating 10k & M or a bunch of threshold reps are your best bet.

I'm guessing you still have some bigger marathon paced long runs left so consider that with pace/volume for the mid-week workout.

RangerRick47 wrote:

Here is an idea; 1 mile at 5k pace, 1mile at 10k pace and 1 mile 1\2 marathon pace, repeat with no rest. Its a mental edge and 6 miles of work.

That is basically running 10k pace for 6 miles with uneven pacing. I don't see that happening.

ChuggsBunny wrote:

The only work out that should be in that time period is 15-20miles at race pace surrounded by a lot of recovery

My impression is that most people can't handle that much volume. They run faster for 20 in the workout than they do in the race. Super shoes help a bit but 15+ miles at MP pace gets pretty close to that improvement/break down line. You would need to know how you responded to things like 18 with 10 at MP pace before figuring out how far to go.

Doing something like 8 miles of alternating 10k/MP is a more moderate workout that gets some quality aerobic work in.

Here is what the actually workout ended up being:

Warmup: 3mi ez

drive 10 minutes to my 800 circle

2mi @ 6:40 pace

2' rest: retie shoes, piss

>10k Fartlek - 800@5k, 1200@M, 800@5k, 1200@M, 800@5k, 1600@M, 400@5k, 1200@M, 400@5k, 2000@M.

1.5mi cooldown

I only averaged 5:55/mi during the 5k efforts, and then only averaged 6:55/mi during the M efforts. It was difficult. After the 3rd 800 at 5k pace I knew I needed to run at M pace longer to clear the lactate. Then I split the 4th 800 at 5k into two 400s. Physically I'm not sure what i did to myself with this workout, but despite the slightly slow paces mentally I am feeling pretty good.

On sunday I will be 21 days out from the Marathon and I'm going to race a balls to the wall 1/2Marathon as basically my final super hard effort. Plan is to warmup 5 miles, Race 1/2M, cooldown 3 miles for a total of 21mi. Can I break 1:21 in order to go confidently break 2:50? We will see.

So basically you asked for a bunch of advice and when people said it was too much and do less 5k work you just made it harder and added more 5k work.

I remember you from a year or two back and this was basically your strategy them too.

Hey man, all the best for 2:50. Sounds like you’ve got it all figured out.

For what it’s worth, I also remember the only person you listened to was Allen53, and we all know now who he turned out to be.

I remember when I was asking for advice on my first marathon every on this board told me I would not come close to breaking 3.

I smashed a 2:56:XX with 700ft ele gain.

Except for Allen53 I guess? I 'll have to re look at the thread, or not I dont really care. Super weird that you would remember what I posted years ago when I post a thread like twice a year and basically never comment.

hellozo wrote:

For what it’s worth, I also remember the only person you listened to was Allen53, and we all know now who he turned out to be.

Not quite. Allen 1959 is not at all the same person as the person you're thinking of. Listening to Allen 1959 is a much more reasonable decision.

The thread is here:

I don't agree with others that the volume is too high if your are fit and you have worked towards it. It's 9 miles of work most of which at Marathon pace. It could be if your biggest workout prior to this was lower than 70-80% of this one.

I used to do a similar workout every 10 days or so. I used to even run 5-8 miles before a Half Marathon @ MP+10-20 and then run the half all out. That would be 6-8 weeks out. I never hit the wall when I had these massive workouts under me.

That being said if I had 9 miles to work with you I would rather send you out for something like a a 3x3 mile workout with the format of 15k- 1/2 Marathon pace for all reps and if you are tempted pick it up a little on the last one. 3-5 minutes break between sets.

Just looked at your workout. It wasn't bad.

Generally I don't think the faster stuff for you will help all that much but it may give you a little insurance if your race gets a little out of control, you surge a hill, etc. But it was only at 5:55 pace so I think it is ok.