What is hard running meant to feel like?

Just crank up a treadmill to top speed and try to hold on for a minute or two. That's hard running.

I know exactly what you’re talking about. I was in a 5k training block with some guys who were much more aerobically fit than me and I constantly got dropped on tempos. I felt my whole body get swamped with lactate, but I really felt it in the chest, because speed wise I was faster than these guys.

I only got in one tempo where I didn’t get dropped. However you have to take my advice with a grain of salt because about a month later I got a stress fracture.

What I found helped a lot is adding in more quality speed work. Mile paced reps and some faster 200s. This is my kinda wheelhouse of pace, but I felt like once I could get lactate buildup in track sessions, I could tolerate it more on a long tempo

I don't feel it in my legs until last third of the race or interval workout. You run high mileage slowly so your aerobic system is stronger than your anaerobic. Do some anerobic running workouts as that is your bottleneck. 5 x 1K 12 x 400

I'm the same way. I can churn out tons of miles slowly and my lungs feel fine, but for whatever reasons my legs and hips are tight (tilted pelvis?).

I think you answered your own questions. Running more at top speed will make your lungs/chest hurt more especially when you don’t do it often, but if you do more high intensity stuff more regularly, I think your cardiovascular system will callas for lack of a better word and it will feel less excruciating with repetition. Then once your lungs really get going, lactic acid will build up in your muscles. Bottom line is you just need to step out of your comfort zone and you will probably be great for it as you have a huge aerobic base

Run 6 x 800m, 400m jog, at 5k pace x 0.95. This will give you a good idea of what that buildup in the legs feels like.

hobby coach wrote:

Run 6 x 800m, 400m jog, at 5k pace x 0.95. This will give you a good idea of what that buildup in the legs feels like.

I can run thresholds and up to 5% faster quite comfortably, the feeling in my thighs and my chest and my breathing is not too hard and relatively controlled. If I go faster the first is that I start feeling the lactate in the legs so faster pace such as 5k is that way. the breathing is increased, but I feel I get the air I need. If I go hard, type 3k or faster (vo2max) the lactate builds up and I can in the end not get enough air sort of.

I envy that you do not feel it in the legs sort of.

Maybe some sessions of VO2 max is the way to increase that? I would choose 3k speed and not just 5k or lower cause VO2 max is somewhere btw 6-10min race pace and not 15-20. I also just read research comparing the effects of intervals at 100% VO2max pace and 95% and 100% was superior in short term improvements. Over time all the different paces have their benefit and need of recovery so that is another story.

I think it's meant to feel a bit difficult but I'm not really sure.

Thank you all for replying.

So I ran 5x1k with 400m recovery today really concentrating on what felt like what.

The shoes I used used I could probably run around 17:30 in a 5k.

I am not entirely sure of my Max Hr but it is around 180 I suspect

My k reps were

3:40, 3:33, 3:29, 3:37, 3:33. So not perfectly paced, but I did not feel I could have gone quicker.

I generally do the first one slightly slow to get a feel.

1st one felt ok. - maxhr 162

2nd - I was glad it was over - maxhr 165

3rd - wanted to stop around 500m, lungs heaving, max hr 171

4th - same as 3rd, though when finished wasn't sure I could complete another one - max hr 172

5th - wanted to stop by 100m, legs felt fine, lungs/hr struggling. zoned out at the end - max hr 173

173 is the highest I have seen in a while for HR so I really giving it a go!

Could I have done another? with a gun to my head. Probably.

So was this a Vo2 workout? It is inline with some of the recomendations above.

Is that lactate in my chest causing all the misery there? Or if not what is it?

Is the idea that I do this for a few weeks and as I get use too, improve at this kind of training, theoretically get faster I should start feel lactate in legs?

Thank you

running hard hurts everywhere, lungs on fire and legs shutting down

feeling limiting factor is lungs rather than legs:

hills, all types of running on hills

and go find a hill that takes 45 to 60 seconds to get up it (only time it once). run as fast as you can, walk down, do it 3-5 times. you can alternate skipping and bounding up the thing too. add some squat jumps at the top. build into these slowly.

your legs will be tired (even if your lungs are on fire).

also go find a steep hill to do 8-10 second sprints on. rest 2-3 minutes in between. build up to 6 or so.

do each once a week; sprints year round, longer stuff maybe before track work or if you don't periodize your training then once every 2-3 weeks or so

build up to this slowly and it should help

another masters runner

you might also have asthma or a breathing pattern disorder (or both) which would make your breathing the limiting factor, so if you're new to running worth getting checked out

Sounds like you got some of the feeling you were wondering about. Your description matches the majority of most 5k-focused workouts I've done.

If you could probably run around 17:30 in a 5k, then you should probably be able to average 3:30 for the 5 x 1000. But the times you ran look about right for a first crack at this workout. Repeat the workout once a week the next two weeks, and I would expect your repeat times to drop at the same effort.

After that, you could profitably do a 5k pace or 3k (roughly 5k pace - 5%) workout once every two-three weeks, when not racing.

If you do a few more weeks of this faster stuff, watch out when you return to threshold work. That first repeat may feel easier than before, so you start the workout too fast, and pay for it. This is not a bad problem to have, though.

Have you googled/used the Mcmillian running calculator? should help you get an idea of what paces to run for which kind of workouts