HR training - How slow is too slow?

Why are you setting 130 as your limit?

That was a quick reply!

I'd read that 70% of max was a good rate for building a solid base.

My understanding of heart rate training is that you want to use training zones based on % of Heart Rate Reserve, not max HR.

What's your resting heart rate? Subtract that from 190 (assuming that is your correct max HR); this is your HRR.

Google HRR training zones (I don't recall exactly and don't feel like looking it up right now). Get the % range for the desired zone and add that to your resting HR. That's your target HR for training zone X.

This ^

Use the Karvonen HRR formula. Your beneficial aerobic efforts should fall in the 70-75% range. Using HRR (assuming a RHR of 50), you should be doing these efforts at 148-155 bpm. Recovery runs in the 60-65% range would be done at 134-141 bpm.

Ah thank you guys, that makes a bit more sense! My RHR is around 50-55 when I'm properly rested and just laying in bed. I'll use the Karvonen formula and start again.

190 is about the highest I've ever gone, I tested by sprinting up hill near the end of a long run when my rate was already high.

You likely don’t know your true max if that was your only test ever. At the end of a long run you are unlikely to be push your heart rate up as high as you could when well-rested, warmed up, and fresh.

I'm nearly 40 so I was pleased with 190. Perhaps I'll try and dedicate a morning session to trying to get it to its max.

Joe makes a good point. To determine your true max HR, go get a lab treadmill test (about $150 or see if a local university perform the test conducted by their Exercise Physiology students) or do the following field test at a local track:

15-20 minutes of warm up

3-4 100 meter striders with jog back to start as recovery

All out 800 meters

Rest 5 minutes

Run another all out 800 meters (your highest HR achieved on this second effort is your max)

Cool down

Be sure that you are heart healthy enough to do this. It's tough and is going to hurt like hell. It's not as accurate as a lab test but it should get you a solid enough number to base your training zones on.

Different coaches have different recommendations for HR easy training.

Jack Daniels defines easy running as 65% to 78% of max hr.

Pete Pfitzinger defines general aerobic running as 70% to 81% of max hr

Many on this forum would recommend 70% to 75% of max hr.

Take your from the above and you won't go far wrong.

It's really harder than hell to know your true max HR. If you must use HR for training (and there's no particular reason that you should) the best way is to use Friel's method to find your lactate threshold heart rate and then use his percentages to set your zones.

You go by feel not by harming max HR

Garmin*

Thanks guys, I appreciate the replies.

If there's no particular reason to run by heart rate then I'm happy to just run by feel. Looking at the watch every few minutes and adjusting would be a lot less hassle.

I was just under the impression that was a good way to do things.

It can be good if you use it to guide you, and it can be bad when you let it dictate every little thing you do. I usually use it only for recovery runs (day after a workout), but not really on easy runs (day before a workout) except to look at the average afterwards.

Another poster said your test for your max HR wasn't very good and he's right, after a long run your heart rate can't go as high because you start to go through glycogen depletion (probably not 100% for anyone really), which lowers your max for a bit. I found mine (200) by wearing it during a 5k and the saw the peak when I kicked (it was 195 ish for a while and then I hit 200 at the end) which also isn't perfect, but very close since running at VO2 max or a little faster for 5 - 6 minutes with a proper warm up should bring out your max HR.

As for 70% being that slow, you don't give an indication of your other PRs. I tend to train at 70% HR for my recovery runs and that's usually about 7:15 - 7:45 for me (min/mi), but I'm in the 15s for 5k, so that makes sense. If you're a 20+ min 5ker, sometimes you might need to go pretty slow if you're tired, but if you're sub 20, that seems like either your max is higher (likely) or your HR monitor is off (also likely if you're using a wrist based monitor). When doing easy runs (so not when you need to recover, but are just doing miles between workouts), you can get as high as 80% and still be fine.

One last thing, think about how much mileage you're doing when using heart rate. If you are running relatively low mileage (say less than 40), you can go a little faster and still recover (so more like 80%), but if you're running high mileage (say 90+ mpw), then it makes more sense to take your easy days a tad easier at say 78% max.

Take from that what you want

I'm not naturally athletic, and although I have a runner's build, I'm not very fast. 20 years of smoking in the past probably didn't help.

23:00 is my 5k PB, although my HR only got up to 179 at the end of it. I can do a half in 2 hours - just.

I use a chest monitor because my watch was miles off the mark.

I was running 25k a week, but I've started increasing it to 50 or so. Perhaps I'll worry less about the heart rate and just try to be sensible.

It progressively drifts up regardless, so it's frustrating fighting against a number on a screen.

grenage wrote:

I'm not naturally athletic, and although I have a runner's build, I'm not very fast. 20 years of smoking in the past probably didn't help.

23:00 is my 5k PB, although my HR only got up to 179 at the end of it. I can do a half in 2 hours - just.

I use a chest monitor because my watch was miles off the mark.

I was running 25k a week, but I've started increasing it to 50 or so. Perhaps I'll worry less about the heart rate and just try to be sensible.

It progressively drifts up regardless, so it's frustrating fighting against a number on a screen.

It should drift upward as you warm up. Once you're 10 min in or so, it should level out for a while, then start to drift upwards again as you lose blood volume as you start to dehydrate.

As far as trying to keep HR under an arbitrary number.....I've been injury prone for years and have been using my HRM for most of my runs just to make sure I am not running too hard. Some days it feels like I just want to speed up and I could be 10-15 bpm higher at the same HR, but on those days, I find that I'm quite a bit more sore the next day.

I've had the longest stretch of uninterrupted running that I've had in decades and have noticed my pace at 140 bpm is about 20-30 seconds faster per mile than it was a few months ago.

Leveling out after warming up is what I'm after, but this is the sort of thing I see in every run (5k this morning running as I fancied).

https://m.imgur.com/ONF82UC

Hi Grenage

I am 10 yrs older than you with max hr about 10 less and pbs etc very similar.

By the book my normal; 10k / 21k long / easy run, my hr is too high and always drifts up.

I simply cant run in the 70% region. If i am not walking my hr is approaching 80%.

I had a discussion with a top UK athletics coach about this. everyone is different and zones / numbers can be 10 to 20 even different per person.

Do the hrr test and use this as a guide. plug the 'official' heart rate zones into garmin / strava, and then see what they feel like.

see what you actually run. what did it feel like?

adjust your personal hr zones accordingly and use them as a guide.

monitor and adapt as necessary.