Not a distance runner, but a kid I went to HS with played baseball his whole life and was cut from the baseball team his Jr year of HS never doing any speed work in his life before joining the track team and he ran 11.2 100m and 23 200m with an acute form of asthma.
His senior year he ran a 10.6 100m and 21.4 200m. Ran for a Pac 10 school and lowered his 200 to a 20.8 and then quit track after a year or two and gave up sports entirely. I would guess he was tired of the asthma bothering him.
Bob Packard Sprinter
Times are on cinder tracks back when training and racing were limited.
Freshman
1932: First in conference in 100-yard dash, :10.3
1932: First in conference in 220-yard dash, :22.7
1932: Member of conference first place 880-yard relay team, 1:34.9
Soph
1933: First in conference in 100-yard dash, :10.2
1933: First in conference in 220-yard dash, :22.0
1933: Member of conference first place 880-yard relay team, 1:34.0
Junior
1934: First in conference in 100-yard dash, :09.9
1934: First in conference in 220-yard dash, :22.5
1934: First in conference in broad jump, 21-2 ½
1934: Member of conference first place 880-yard relay team, 1:36.1
Senior
1935: First in conference in 100-yard dash, :10.0
1935: First in conference in 220-yard dash, :21.6
1935: First in conference in broad jump, 21-11 ½
1935: Member of conference first place 880-yard relay team, 1:32.3
1936: Member of the U.S. Olympic track and field team in Berlin
1936: Tied former Olympic record in 200-meter dash in preliminary heat, eliminated in semifinals after injuring ankle
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athletics_at_the_1936_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_200_metres
1936-1937: Division 1 track athlete at University of Georgia
1936: Outdoor track All-American in the 100-yard dash
1937: SEC track champion in 100-yard dash, :09.7
1937: SEC track champion in the 200-yard dash, :21.6
Was a heavy drinker, which was not uncommon during the depression, and cut short his career. Although there were precious few opportunities to earn money for track exploits, someone who knew him said that guy was as fast anyone, and without the twisted ankle in the semis, he might have tied Jesse Owens recent Olympic record in the semis, and like Jesse might have broken 21 in the finals
After doing some more research I have found 2 runners who are similar to how my teammate was in terms of quick development and raw talent.
Patrick Parker of American Fork joined XC and Track his Junior year. He took 45th @ NXN after starting training in June. According to an article he was also sick when he ran making that even more impressive. Ran 4:10 indoors for the mile and 9:04-4:06 and 1:53 for his first track season having been training for little under a year. Ran 9:10-4:03-1:50 and took top 20 at nationals the following year. Being from Utah these times were also run at altitude. Except for the mile PR's, those seem to be done at sea level at big meets like Dream mile ect.
Daniel Kuhn from Indiana started running XC his junior year. Ran okay times in the 16:30s but then decided to join track his senior year. In his first and only track season he ran 1:56 and progressed to a 1:50 by the end of the season. What made it so impressive was he was playing baseball at the same time track was going on. He I guess was hardly training at all running <15 mpw. Ended up giving up a D2 scholarship for baseball to run for IU where he became an All-American.
I would consider these guys to probably have more talent than my teammate did. People like this do exist though it's exceptionally rare. Another person someone mentioned in the thread was Marshall Brooker. He seemed to have a similar progression when I looked him up having run 4:15-1:56 in just 5 months of training after beginning his running career as a Junior.
So with the trolls aside I have so far learned from this thread and on my own that there are people out there that have crazy amounts of talent; even more so than my old teammate/friend. I like I mentioned ran 9:01-4:11 in HS and it took me years of grinding out miles to get there. It amazes me sometimes that some people with enough ability can get there in just a year or less. If anyone still has names or stories of kids who are like this feel free to keep posting. I'm always curious to see where these people who get good really quick end up. Do they flame out because they don't have a work ethic because they are so used to getting far on ability alone? Do they more or less plateau? Or do they step it up even further and become even more of a beast?
Yeah there's unfortunately a lot of cases like that where someone has the ability but just have other interest. I had another teammate who was similar. As a freshman he ran 3 miles in 15:15 in his first XC season running. He always always more passionate for basketball and played it every winter. He still did outdoor track but wouldn't start training until March. As a frosh he ran 1:54-4:28. Like I said though he never really had the work ethic or interest and while he ran track and XC all 4 years his heart was never fully in it and he would miss large blocks of training. For example he rarely showed up for summer running because he played in a summer league for basketball. He only ended up improving to a 15:01(3 mile)-4:24-1:53 by the time he was a senior and ended up playing basketball at a D3 school. It's sad because he really was talented by never found the motivation to train consistently during the off season.
You missed the freshman at 4:09/8:58 which beats all of your guys.
The only freshman to ever do that is Eli Krahn, who I assume you are talking about. I'm judging talent by how quick someone can reach elite times. While I have no doubt Krahn was super talented he had been running since his youth so he had a decent background in running by the time he was a freshman.
But then again a lot of these other guys being mentioned who started running as juniors and seniors do have the advantage of being older and stronger. So yeah maybe Krahn is up there with them. Even if he had years of training under his belt to go 8:58/4:09 as a frosh is insane.
go run fast and jump high wrote:
You missed the freshman at 4:09/8:58 which beats all of your guys.
I assume this person is Eli Krahn - he did train for 3 years at apparently a pretty high intensity before running 4:09, so not really the same comparison.
My senior year in HS we heard about this kid at a rival school, a junior, who during summer football practice ran a 2:07 800m in full pads. No XC or track background at all.
So, after football season the guy comes out for track. Runs a 1:54, but then later blows up by going out too hard (can happen to anybody in the 800, right?), finishes last in 2:09 iirc, and is so disheartened that he decides to never run track again.
Too bad, the guy had tons of talent. I think he could have developed well over a few years.
18rabbitskiing wrote:
This is pretty impressive and fast but not unheard of especially for a strong athlete who has been active in other sports. A lot of great athletes who could be strong runners don't gravitate towards track especially in states like Texas where football is king. Go to any big school and there's gonna be football players who could have easily qualified for the state meet in the 100M if they had joined the track team or soccer players who make great middle to long distance runners. I as the best distance runner in my high school but we had athletes from others sports that beat me in our town's local 10K most years. Many sports like soccer, wrestling, and football incorporate running into their practices along with strength training.
My high school had an athlete who joined the wrestling team when he was cut from the JV basketball team as a sophomore. He ended up being being a state finalist in wrestling his junior and senior years also won the state triple jump title his senior year in addition to being a football All-American in college (DIII).
As also pointed out when one is in high school and already in good shape it doesn't take as long to get to peak form, the body is more resilient and training is easier.
What you said is true!
When I was a H.S. coach, I use say the best track team is walking the hallways or playing other sports. Unless you have an age-group or middle school feeder program you mostly got the left overs from other sports or activity seekers. You could start to get good athletes once your program built a reputation. It is a shame becasue sometimes there are D1 female scholarships that go used becasue no applicants meet the standards. I had a 41 feet shot putter get full tuition at an Atlantic-10 school. A decent shot put coach can get a power forward on the basketball team to 41 feet in one season. Obviously I am taking about a girl with some size and athletic ability.
ducky now wrote:
Yes. You don't seem to understand that at 17 years old, it only requires a few months of training to get close to your potential. The reason that it is rare is not because people can't get there that fast but instead because most talented runners gravitate toward the sport at a younger age because a coach or gym teacher or parent urged them to run because they were so talented. If Grant Fisher played soccer throughout high school and then went out for track senior year, he would have run 4 flat in the mile.
So you're saying I could get back to my peak fitness in a few months? I am still at my athletic prime age.
I think some people progress fast, others slowly. Physiology is complicated.
My dad was one of just a couple runners who beat Jim Ryun in HS in Kansas before he exploded into fame. My dad, Gene McClain, was largely self coached and ran a 4:13 and won the Golden West. But when Jim Ryun is just down the road in Wichita.................
Are you 17 and at peak weight? Then yes, you can hit your PRs within 4 months in the 1600 or 3 miles. If older or a longer distance or you need to lose any weight, then it will take longer.
4:13 is a great HS mile, even more so on cinder tracks and with short sport seasons.