It is happening.
It is happening.
full boat wrote:
Fixed typos:
Women’s D1 full boat scholarships are now available to humans with a Y chromosome...
They have been available for at least a few decades, if not longer. You just don't know which female athletes have Y chromosome. Neither do I. And it's good that we don't know.
Good article on it here:
https://trailrunnermag.com/people/transgender-athlete-rights-are-human-rights.html
Rojo/Wejo, who is the Geoff Burns of hormone treatment? Can we get them on the pod to learn about it and hear the science?
rigged for sallyloper wrote:
It’s not about wokeness it’s about the rules as they stand. Don’t like the rules then go about changing them.
The limited scientific evidence so far does not indicate an inherent advantage for transgender runners after undergoing hormonal treatment. And we have only a handful of examples of transgender runners participating at a competitive level.
If we start getting 45 second 400 m/1:46 800 runners as males coming back to run as 48/1:52 in the women’s division a couple of years later then we would probably expect governing bodies and courts to re-examine the current rulings.
The issue doesn't even really lie with transgender runners undergoing hormonal treatment (ftr I struggle to believe that someone who was a biological male their entire life does not have an advantage over a biological female even after hormonal treatment. You use the word inherent, but inherent benefits must remain - in the same way we know, for example, that dopers have advantage even when they stop taking drugs, due to years of increased training capacity, muscle memory benefits etc).
The issue is with "wokeness" and way out of control "libertarianism" because it is this movement that pushes the narrative that it's not even about an attempt to alter ones sex through hormone therapy etc - it is simply good enough to identify as whatever you choose to and you should be treated as whatever choice it was. That would include simply choosing to identify as a woman (even as a biological male who doesn't want to do any hormone therapy). It's happening right now - case in point The Boston Marathon.
Yes we don't have the extreme examples of say a gender identifier destroying a WR or winning a big race (like Boston) but it's just a matter of time. People might say that's thinking the worst and why would anyone do that - you could make the argument for jabbing a needle in your butt with EPO in it and we know thousands of athletes have been doing this for decades.
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
rigged for sallyloper wrote:
It’s not about wokeness it’s about the rules as they stand. Don’t like the rules then go about changing them.
The limited scientific evidence so far does not indicate an inherent advantage for transgender runners after undergoing hormonal treatment. And we have only a handful of examples of transgender runners participating at a competitive level.
If we start getting 45 second 400 m/1:46 800 runners as males coming back to run as 48/1:52 in the women’s division a couple of years later then we would probably expect governing bodies and courts to re-examine the current rulings.
The issue doesn't even really lie with transgender runners undergoing hormonal treatment (ftr I struggle to believe that someone who was a biological male their entire life does not have an advantage over a biological female even after hormonal treatment. You use the word inherent, but inherent benefits must remain - in the same way we know, for example, that dopers have advantage even when they stop taking drugs, due to years of increased training capacity, muscle memory benefits etc).
The issue is with "wokeness" and way out of control "libertarianism" because it is this movement that pushes the narrative that it's not even about an attempt to alter ones sex through hormone therapy etc - it is simply good enough to identify as whatever you choose to and you should be treated as whatever choice it was. That would include simply choosing to identify as a woman (even as a biological male who doesn't want to do any hormone therapy). It's happening right now - case in point The Boston Marathon.
Yes we don't have the extreme examples of say a gender identifier destroying a WR or winning a big race (like Boston) but it's just a matter of time. People might say that's thinking the worst and why would anyone do that - you could make the argument for jabbing a needle in your butt with EPO in it and we know thousands of athletes have been doing this for decades.
I thought that in Boston, if a transgender female finished in the money, she would have to provide testosterone testing documentation to receive her prize money.
There is no movement to end women's sports. If you don't agree, give me some names of people who have the power to order the NCAA, USATF, IAAF and IOC to throw away their rules. Actually, no one, including Biden, has that power .
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
The issue doesn't even really lie with transgender runners undergoing hormonal treatment (ftr I struggle to believe that someone who was a biological male their entire life does not have an advantage over a biological female even after hormonal treatment. You use the word inherent, but inherent benefits must remain - in the same way we know, for example, that dopers have advantage even when they stop taking drugs, due to years of increased training capacity, muscle memory benefits etc).
The issue is with "wokeness" and way out of control "libertarianism" because it is this movement that pushes the narrative that it's not even about an attempt to alter ones sex through hormone therapy etc - it is simply good enough to identify as whatever you choose to and you should be treated as whatever choice it was. That would include simply choosing to identify as a woman (even as a biological male who doesn't want to do any hormone therapy). It's happening right now - case in point The Boston Marathon.
Yes we don't have the extreme examples of say a gender identifier destroying a WR or winning a big race (like Boston) but it's just a matter of time. People might say that's thinking the worst and why would anyone do that - you could make the argument for jabbing a needle in your butt with EPO in it and we know thousands of athletes have been doing this for decades.
I thought that in Boston, if a transgender female finished in the money, she would have to provide testosterone testing documentation to receive her prize money.
There is no movement to end women's sports. If you don't agree, give me some names of people who have the power to order the NCAA, USATF, IAAF and IOC to throw away their rules. Actually, no one, including Biden, has that power .
Euro Himan right Court
Supreme Court
However it is pressure from the left that has the power.
The left has intellectual supremacy now.
unit flick wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
I thought that in Boston, if a transgender female finished in the money, she would have to provide testosterone testing documentation to receive her prize money.
There is no movement to end women's sports. If you don't agree, give me some names of people who have the power to order the NCAA, USATF, IAAF and IOC to throw away their rules. Actually, no one, including Biden, has that power .
Euro Himan right Court
Supreme Court
However it is pressure from the left that has the power.
The left has intellectual supremacy now.
So one of those courts would allow men to compete in women's sports "as-is"? If there were to be a poll, such a thing would be supported by only a tiny fraction of a percent of the population. Can this "pressure from the left" storm the U.S. Capitol? Wouldn't half of these lunatics be women themselves or men that have daughters competing in sports? Why are you predicting something will happen that no one wants? I don't believe that even 2nd tier male athlete want to compete as-is against women. There soon wouldn't be any women's teams or leagues anyway.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
unit flick wrote:
Euro Himan right Court
Supreme Court
However it is pressure from the left that has the power.
The left has intellectual supremacy now.
So one of those courts would allow men to compete in women's sports "as-is"? If there were to be a poll, such a thing would be supported by only a tiny fraction of a percent of the population. Can this "pressure from the left" storm the U.S. Capitol? Wouldn't half of these lunatics be women themselves or men that have daughters competing in sports? Why are you predicting something will happen that no one wants? I don't believe that even 2nd tier male athlete want to compete as-is against women. There soon wouldn't be any women's teams or leagues anyway.
Not predicting it, rather saying that these are the pressures and the Left has intellectual ascendancy.
The “pressure “ would have no need to storm the Capital as they are the Capital.
The Right stormed the Capital cos they have lost the other battles. Trump failed to provide any intellectual basis to deal with the left.Come back Regan.
It will happen. Most Democrats support it. My daughter tells me that her teachers tell her that a woman can do anything that a boy can. When she asks for clarification, she has been told that girls can run as fast and jump as high and score as well on any math test as a boy. They lag behind only due to all of the years of being told that they can't. They compare it to blacks lagging in test scores and income. They believe that we are truly all equal so there is no reason to have women's categories if only girls are told that they can equal or beat boys.
Big Card wrote:
My daughter tells me that her teachers tell her that a woman can do anything that a boy can. When she asks for clarification, she has been told that girls can run as fast and jump as high and score as well on any math test as a boy. They lag behind only due to all of the years of being told that they can't. They compare it to blacks lagging in test scores and income. They believe that we are truly all equal so there is no reason to have women's categories if only girls are told that they can equal or beat boys.
For most of her time at school she probably can jump as high and run as fast and it would be right for a teacher to say she can do as well as a boy on a math test - truly terrifying stuff! And elite women (even college women) are running faster and jumping higher than 99% of men so I'm not sure your daughter's teachers realize they're being used as examples to inform debate on intersex and trans athletes in sport.
Big Card wrote:
It will happen. Most Democrats support it. My daughter tells me that her teachers tell her that a woman can do anything that a boy can. When she asks for clarification, she has been told that girls can run as fast and jump as high and score as well on any math test as a boy. They lag behind only due to all of the years of being told that they can't. They compare it to blacks lagging in test scores and income. They believe that we are truly all equal so there is no reason to have women's categories if only girls are told that they can equal or beat boys.
This is what I would refer to as the intellectual ascendancy of the Left.
We are not different because of innate differences but because the system and most prob the class system has created them.Then we have the possibility that they don’t even care about that but are looking for anything to dislodge capitalism.
An 18 year old male born breaking a women’s WR is just not on their radar.
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:
The issue doesn't even really lie with transgender runners undergoing hormonal treatment (ftr I struggle to believe that someone who was a biological male their entire life does not have an advantage over a biological female even after hormonal treatment. You use the word inherent, but inherent benefits must remain - in the same way we know, for example, that dopers have advantage even when they stop taking drugs, due to years of increased training capacity, muscle memory benefits etc).
The issue is with "wokeness" and way out of control "libertarianism" because it is this movement that pushes the narrative that it's not even about an attempt to alter ones sex through hormone therapy etc - it is simply good enough to identify as whatever you choose to and you should be treated as whatever choice it was. That would include simply choosing to identify as a woman (even as a biological male who doesn't want to do any hormone therapy). It's happening right now - case in point The Boston Marathon.
Yes we don't have the extreme examples of say a gender identifier destroying a WR or winning a big race (like Boston) but it's just a matter of time. People might say that's thinking the worst and why would anyone do that - you could make the argument for jabbing a needle in your butt with EPO in it and we know thousands of athletes have been doing this for decades.
I thought that in Boston, if a transgender female finished in the money, she would have to provide testosterone testing documentation to receive her prize money.
There is no movement to end women's sports. If you don't agree, give me some names of people who have the power to order the NCAA, USATF, IAAF and IOC to throw away their rules. Actually, no one, including Biden, has that power .
Biden is holding the purse strings. It's a simple application of the golden rule. Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.
I say let them compete, but, only as their sex at birth. Only thing that makes any sense. If a trans dude happens to be competitive, even with the implants, put it in the men’s race.
Big Card wrote:
It will happen. Most Democrats support it. My daughter tells me that her teachers tell her that a woman can do anything that a boy can. When she asks for clarification, she has been told that girls can run as fast and jump as high and score as well on any math test as a boy. They lag behind only due to all of the years of being told that they can't. They compare it to blacks lagging in test scores and income. They believe that we are truly all equal so there is no reason to have women's categories if only girls are told that they can equal or beat boys.
Democrats do not support it. Please provide the name of a Democrat politicion that says he/she wants wants to allow "as-is transgender to compete against women. I wouldn't interpret what your daughter's teacher said the way you do, but she is just one person anyway.
Since the time of Roe vs Wade, a large chunk of the population has been vehemently opposed to abortion, but that group is powerless. Any challenge will have to go to the Supreme Court and even a Pro-Life President has no influence.
Any challenge to transgender athlete policies will have to go through the courts and, of course, it would be a push in the opposite direction which would be a call for transgender athletes to be banned from women's sports.
If what you predict came true there wouldn't be two divisions: one for the top men and a second for 2nd tier guys for with wigs. Believe it or not, many people enjoy watching women's sports and/or have daughters that want to compete in them. No judge in U.S. would rule to allow for the end of women's sports. The thought is ridiculous.
Whether you are taking female hormones or not, if you were born Male you already have an advantage because you lived as a Male for many years so your body is still at a physical advantage. That doesn't seem fair.
Joe Biden. He signed the EO which will allow males to compete as females.
There are already about 15 states that allow boys to compete as girls.
Running craze wrote:
There are already about 15 states that allow boys to compete as girls.
Yeah, states have the descretion to make their own rules, but few people transgender in HS. The largest state, California, generally allows self-identifying but there aren't any such athletes here. Posters frequently cite the Connecticut sprinters, but there are no other examples. A one-off is meaningless and no scholarships were lost.
Running craze wrote:
Joe Biden. He signed the EO which will allow males to compete as females.
You guys are relentless. Biden's EO allows no such thing. It contains only one comments about sports and he refers to children. Many state already allow self-identifying people to compete so what difference does the EO make?
Biden can't sign EOs that will open the borders, send people to take our guns or make the U.S. socialist. On this ssue how can he go around the courts and do what he wants? Why would he cut off funding to states that refuse to allow athletes to participate that don't even exist?
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Running craze wrote:
There are already about 15 states that allow boys to compete as girls.
Yeah, states have the descretion to make their own rules, but few people transgender in HS. The largest state, California, generally allows self-identifying but there aren't any such athletes here. Posters frequently cite the Connecticut sprinters, but there are no other examples. A one-off is meaningless and no scholarships were lost.
I don’t get your argument. Your position is that it will rarely happen so who cares? The HS sprinters in Connecticut happened. The girls competing against them cared.
It rarely happens that someone rides a bike to cut a marathon course. Should we just accept that result because it rarely happens or “no one would do that?”