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The blades also kill too many birds as well as Golden & Bald Eagles which are both protected.
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#21723
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You can't just keep selling more EV's without beefing up the grid first. CA has it ass backwards, by phasing out carbon sources first.
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TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:
Texas didn't just have a bad year. Texas had a monumental failure caused by radical deregulation.
It was caused by weather.
Other states have cold weather. It doesn't cause the power to go out for days and kill at least 57 people. (Some estimates are as high as 702)
The cause of the Texas disaster was radical deregulation. If Texas had the same basic requirements for power plant weatherization they have in all the other states it would have prevented the disaster. Plus, Texas was unable to get power from the other states because it doesn't participate in the national grid system (because they don't want to be regulated).
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Fat hurts wrote:
Coal is dead because it is too expensive regardless of regulation.Coal has been made cost prohibitive. Ask China and India if they believe coal is expensive. They're the ones using most of it nowadays.
It's true that solar and wind are intermittent and sometimes need to be supplemented with storage solutions. In some areas, this can be done with pumped hydro.
Except that the Sierra Club and other left wing groups oppose almost any new proposed pump back or traditional hydro project. Compressed air storage is pretty limited in terms of viable locations.
In others, large lithium battery packs can be used. These are emerging technologies that are extremely cost effective.
You really don't have a clue if you believe Lithium batteries are "extremely cost effective". One study I read noted that if they were able to bring production costs on the batteries down by 90% (which they won't), then, combined with solar and or wind, they would be able to produce power at a wholesale cost of $0.15 / kWh, which is about three times the current wholesale cost of electricity. If you don't think that tripling the cost of electricity is a problem (particularly for the poor), then you are drinking the Biden kool-aid. You need to educate yourself on the viability of batteries before you make grandiose statements you cannot backup. Otherwise, you are just as bad as the congress people and president you voted for.
The US grid is in bad shape because it is maintained by private entities that have no incentive to modernize. In nations where the grid is owned and operated by the government, they have far better reliability.
The grid is maintained primarily by state agencies and independent, non-profit system operators (like CISO, MISO, ERCOT, NYIS, ISNE, SOCO), all of which are overseen by the FERC (Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. They are more or less QuANGOs, not profit hungry private corporations like you are painting them out to be. It is all highly regulated by the federal government.50 -
#21727
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The next shoe to drop in this sinking economy, real estate. Inflation outpacing wages isn't helping either. Foreclosures are coming.
Prices will drop but it will not be nearly enough with soaring interest rates.
Lets go Brandon!
#FJB
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Fat hurts wrote:
TheAdultInTheRoom wrote:
It was caused by weather.
Other states have cold weather. It doesn't cause the power to go out for days and kill at least 57 people. (Some estimates are as high as 702)
The cause of the Texas disaster was radical deregulation. If Texas had the same basic requirements for power plant weatherization they have in all the other states it would have prevented the disaster. Plus, Texas was unable to get power from the other states because it doesn't participate in the national grid system (because they don't want to be regulated).
You are ridiculous...
Do you think Minnesota and Texas made the same winter preparations? Do you think Alabama and Ohio have the same regulations? You have absolutely NO IDEA what you're talking about.
It doesn't snow in Texas. It doesn't freeze. It was a once in a generation storm.
Meanwhile, California has perfect weather EVERY DAY and it has more problems than Texas does.
You are absolutely delusional. You make up your mind first and then ignore any facts that don't fit into your deluded reality... You need help.
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All Biden voters WILL be forced to publicly apologize before being branded with “Biden” on their foreheads.
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"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f**k things up"- Obama
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Ghost of Disco Gary wrote:
This is completely untrue.
The carbon footprint of a windmill is 90 times less than coal. It is 40 times less than natural gas.
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Ghost of Disco Gary wrote:
The blades also kill too many birds as well as Golden & Bald Eagles which are both protected.
Oil kills a lot more birds. And domestic cats kill even more than oil.
Plus, windmills are getting better and better at protecting the birds. In addition to other measures, the largest windmills kill hardly any birds at all because the blades move so slowly.
From the same factcheck article:
As we also noted back in 2016, the Department of Energy’s Brookhaven National Laboratory has found that oil fields could be killing up to 1 million birds a year. But even oil fields pale in
comparison to domestic cats, which scientists estimate kill billions of
birds a year.01 -
joedlirt wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:
Coal is dead because it is too expensive regardless of regulation.
Coal has been made cost prohibitive. Ask China and India if they believe coal is expensive. They're the ones using most of it nowadays.
It's true that solar and wind are intermittent and sometimes need to be supplemented with storage solutions. In some areas, this can be done with pumped hydro.
Except that the Sierra Club and other left wing groups oppose almost any new proposed pump back or traditional hydro project. Compressed air storage is pretty limited in terms of viable locations.
In others, large lithium battery packs can be used. These are emerging technologies that are extremely cost effective.
You really don't have a clue if you believe Lithium batteries are "extremely cost effective". One study I read noted that if they were able to bring production costs on the batteries down by 90% (which they won't), then, combined with solar and or wind, they would be able to produce power at a wholesale cost of $0.15 / kWh, which is about three times the current wholesale cost of electricity. If you don't think that tripling the cost of electricity is a problem (particularly for the poor), then you are drinking the Biden kool-aid. You need to educate yourself on the viability of batteries before you make grandiose statements you cannot backup. Otherwise, you are just as bad as the congress people and president you voted for.
The US grid is in bad shape because it is maintained by private entities that have no incentive to modernize. In nations where the grid is owned and operated by the government, they have far better reliability.
The grid is maintained primarily by state agencies and independent, non-profit system operators (like CISO, MISO, ERCOT, NYIS, ISNE, SOCO), all of which are overseen by the FERC (Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. They are more or less QuANGOs, not profit hungry private corporations like you are painting them out to be. It is all highly regulated by the federal government.China and India are deploying more and more solar and wind. Just like everywhere else, solar and wind are growing faster than fossil fuels. In fact, China and India are home to the largest solar installations in the world.
They are cutting down on coal relative to the growth in their respective economies. The problem is that their economies are growing so fast that they still need some new coal capacity to keep up. There are a few places where coal still makes economic sense, but those are dwindling.
China is doing the right thing in that it is adding high-capacity east/west DC lines to its grid. This will accommodate solar such that it can be used for a much longer period each day without the need for storage. Long term, China will continue to add more solar and wind relative to coal and gas.
The US should do the same thing. In fact, the Trump administration blocked a plan to connect the east and west power grids because it would mean that some coal plants get shut down sooner.
I don't know where you got your "one study" or how old it is, but current solar + battery installations are getting wholesale costs down to about 2 cents per kWh (LCOE). It's already cheaper than fossil fuels for many applications. And battery costs continue to drop very fast.
The only thing holding up wider deployment of solar+storage solutions is the availability of batteries. Right now, it's more profitable to put a battery into an EV than into a grid storage system. Battery manufacturing is struggling to keep up with demand. But we will get there.
I stand by my earlier statement that "The US grid is in bad shape because it is maintained by private entities that have no incentive to modernize. In nations where the grid is owned and operated by the government, they have far better reliability."
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Ghost of Disco Gary wrote:
"Don't underestimate Joe's ability to f**k things up"- Obama
I do wish Biden would keep that promise. But he hasn't.
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Fat hurts wrote:
I don't know where you got your "one study" or how old it is, but current solar + battery installations are getting wholesale costs down to about 2 cents per kWh (LCOE). It's already cheaper than fossil fuels for many applications. And battery costs continue to drop very fast.
I do need to correct this. I was writing from memory and when I went back to check I was unable to find the project I remembered at 2 cents per kWh.
But the fact remains that for many applications, solar plus battery storage is already cost competitive with fossil fuels, even on an unsubsidized basis. And the cost of storage is dropping dramatically.
This is the best, most recent study I could find on current costs. Again, the future cost of solar plus storage is expected to continue dropping while the future cost of fossil fuel plants continues to remain high.
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Trump took a beating in the Georgia primary yesterday. His top two targets, Brian Kemp and Brad Raffensperger crushed their Trump-backed opponents.
I guess Republicans in Georgia don't buy into the stolen election nonsense. They trust the guys who stood up to Trump when it mattered most.
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Well it looks like all the morning threads about the Texas mass shooting were all nuked.... I suspect that the mods are A-OK with many idiotic, race baiting culture war threads polluting the board daily but any real life event that reflects badly on the GOP and right wing is not permitted to have it's own thread.
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Fat hurts wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:
I don't know where you got your "one study" or how old it is, but current solar + battery installations are getting wholesale costs down to about 2 cents per kWh (LCOE). It's already cheaper than fossil fuels for many applications. And battery costs continue to drop very fast.
I do need to correct this. I was writing from memory and when I went back to check I was unable to find the project I remembered at 2 cents per kWh.
But the fact remains that for many applications, solar plus battery storage is already cost competitive with fossil fuels, even on an unsubsidized basis. And the cost of storage is dropping dramatically.
This is the best, most recent study I could find on current costs. Again, the future cost of solar plus storage is expected to continue dropping while the future cost of fossil fuel plants continues to remain high.
2 cents per kWh? You are out of your mind. The recently completed battery storage demonstration project in San Diego cost $300/kWh to install, and they freely admit that the benefits over the life of the project don’t come close to offsetting the costs. It will costs more in maintenance alone to run the system than the power is worth. OUT OF YOUR MIND.
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joediirt wrote:
Fat hurts wrote:
I do need to correct this. I was writing from memory and when I went back to check I was unable to find the project I remembered at 2 cents per kWh.
But the fact remains that for many applications, solar plus battery storage is already cost competitive with fossil fuels, even on an unsubsidized basis. And the cost of storage is dropping dramatically.
This is the best, most recent study I could find on current costs. Again, the future cost of solar plus storage is expected to continue dropping while the future cost of fossil fuel plants continues to remain high.
2 cents per kWh? You are out of your mind. The recently completed battery storage demonstration project in San Diego cost $300/kWh to install, and they freely admit that the benefits over the life of the project don’t come close to offsetting the costs. It will costs more in maintenance alone to run the system than the power is worth. OUT OF YOUR MIND.
Found it. I did mis-remember the details slightly. But it's still super-cheap.
The new solar/battery project outside of Los Angeles has a power purchase agreement for just under 2 cents per kWh for the solar part. Combined with the storage, it comes to 3.3 cents per kWh.
The project was eventually approved and is expected to go online next year. I'm out of my mind.
The projects would sell their 200 megawatts of solar capacity under a
25-year power-purchase agreement with LADWP at a price of $19.97 per
megawatt-hour.Meanwhile, the price for the project’s battery capacity, according to
Montag’s presentation, is an additional $13 per megawatt-hour for the
100-megawatt plan, or $33 per megawatt-hour when combined with the
solar.02
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