Biden announces 1st day order of business. Allow biological males in women's sports

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Biden won't have the power to do any such thing. Each state determines who is eligible to compete for HS and the NCAA and USTAF for college and pro.

You are ignorant to the way government hostage taking works. The Feds steal the states' money. Then, they say if you want your money back, you need to do X (or in this case, X+Y), or you dont get any of the money we stole from you.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

So how long will it take for the Connecticut girl's case to work it's way up to the Supreme Court? Sorry, but a HS girl being bumped from 6th to 8th, isn't going to fire up too many judges..

...and what about first to third?

C. C. Writer wrote:

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Biden won't have the power to do any such thing. Each state determines who is eligible to compete for HS and the NCAA and USTAF for college and pro.

You are ignorant to the way government hostage taking works. The Feds steal the states' money. Then, they say if you want your money back, you need to do X (or in this case, X+Y), or you dont get any of the money we stole from you.

California has the same rules as Connecticut and even though it has a population of 39M I'm not aware of even a single HS transgender athlete. How will the Federal government justify taking action against California for refusing to ban athletes that don't exist.

The ban some of you want will need to be won in court. The case will require agreived parties and from actual competition. If it went that far, there will not be an across the board ban based on sports like weightlifting and for distance running, the agreived party will be the Montana girl that didn't make the traveling team. So far, the one data point from competition, supports the belief that the testestorone treatments effectively level the playing field.

It would be difficult for the Supreme Court to ban American transgender athletes. So long as they are allowed to compete by the IOC the court isn't going to take any action.

The government can't just do what it wants. Citizens have rights and can only have them taken away through the courts.

Tatar wrote:

ordering more wings wrote:

Disclaimer, I'm all for people being what they want. BUT I'm not for women getting screwed over in sport.

Look around you. Do you think the people on this thread wanting to censor trans identities on this thread are doing so because they care about women's sport? A big threat to equality is absolute definitions because it reinforces stereotypes. Their real motivation is to be able to say women or blacks or LGBT people are 100% totally completely different from them so then they can justify inequality.

I was unaware that chromosomal configuration was a factor in perpetuating stereotypes. Excepting extremely rare instances of genetic abnormality, biological sex adheres about as closely as possible to the absolute. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that women and men are different. I know that's a radical concept, but it does allow the girls I coach to compete with their peers on a level playing field.

Biden is a racist who supported the War on Drugs. He's the last one who should be babbling about civil rights.

Ridiculous wrote:

Tatar wrote:

Look around you. Do you think the people on this thread wanting to censor trans identities on this thread are doing so because they care about women's sport? .

Umm...quite obviously, yes. That is the reason.

Please, you really think Breitbart care? Or are they just weaponizing it?

The HS girl in CT: suppose the court ruled in her favor; if she ever wanted to do decathlon, doesn't her argument give succor to people who say men and women are completely different so there needs to be heptathlon instead? Or that men and women being totally different means combat roles or STEM subjects are male-dominated because of differing inate skills and interests?

I think any moves to define us like this will just entrench the same logic which meant women couldn't vote or purchase property or hold jobs. Imagine MLK saying there are vast differences between races, how could he have argued for equality if he thought that?

Tatar wrote:

Ridiculous wrote:

Umm...quite obviously, yes. That is the reason.

Please, you really think Breitbart care? Or are they just weaponizing it?

The HS girl in CT: suppose the court ruled in her favor; if she ever wanted to do decathlon, doesn't her argument give succor to people who say men and women are completely different so there needs to be heptathlon instead? Or that men and women being totally different means combat roles or STEM subjects are male-dominated because of differing inate skills and interests?

I think any moves to define us like this will just entrench the same logic which meant women couldn't vote or purchase property or hold jobs. Imagine MLK saying there are vast differences between races, how could he have argued for equality if he thought that?

So do away with sex segregation in sports altogether. Girls and boys can try out for the same team. Best players get on, everyone else is cut. Fair! Equal!

Think a lot of girls make the team?

The anti-logic/anti-science party spins such massive webs of BS that they find themselves in this very position having to double down on their delusion.

I agree... let's have a free-for-all merit based sport environment. When there is no biological female on any team, the anti-logic/anti-science party will be scratching their heads wondering what happened.

The party of stupid.

And for the record, I LOVE womens athletics. I LOVE watching women compete against each other, just as I LOVE watching men compete against each other men. SCIENCE is what it is... and there is a reason the mens 100m WR is about one second faster than women... there is a reason why the mens high jump WR is over 8 feet and the women is 6'10"... there's a reason why the mens SP WR is over 75' with a 16lb ball, and the women throw a 8.8lb ball and have not surpassed 75'. It's SCIENCE... the very thing the anti-logic/anti-science party claims to be the arbiters of.

There is no gender, only all. No gender based language, no gender division in sports, RRs, no more OBGYNs, no more male health clinics. If we legislate that there are no differences between the genders, then it must be so. Science be damned.

That's not what I'm saying. Let's be softer on this instead of trying to enforce absolute separations.

If I could speak to that high schooler I'd say while I understand this feels like a disadvantage, anything which reduces sexism is positive and including trans people would do that.

Tatar wrote:

shifty principles wrote:

So do away with sex segregation in sports altogether. Girls and boys can try out for the same team. Best players get on, everyone else is cut. Fair! Equal!

Think a lot of girls make the team?

That's not what I'm saying. Let's be softer on this instead of trying to enforce absolute separations.

If I could speak to that high schooler I'd say while I understand this feels like a disadvantage, anything which reduces sexism is positive and including trans people would do that.

Ohhhh, so in other word, 'take one for the team'. Your right to compete in a truly level playing field, does not outweigh the person who was named Johnny and now goes by Joanie.

Give up your right, so others can unfairly beat you.

Tatar wrote:

If I could speak to that high schooler I'd say while I understand this feels like a disadvantage, anything which reduces sexism is positive and including trans people would do that.

Nobody is suggesting that trans people should not be included in sports.

comedyre1i3f wrote:

There is no gender, only all. No gender based language, no gender division in sports, RRs, no more OBGYNs, no more male health clinics. If we legislate that there are no differences between the genders, then it must be so. Science be damned.

No one has made the argument in court that there is no difference between the genders when it comes to sports and that is why transgender athletes are required to undergo testosterone suppression.

Many people believe that it doesn't even the playing field, but there needs to be a significant amount of actual race data to challenge the status quo.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

comedyre1i3f wrote:

There is no gender, only all. No gender based language, no gender division in sports, RRs, no more OBGYNs, no more male health clinics. If we legislate that there are no differences between the genders, then it must be so. Science be damned.

No one has made the argument in court that there is no difference between the genders when it comes to sports and that is why transgender athletes are required to undergo testosterone suppression.

Many people believe that it doesn't even the playing field, but there needs to be a significant amount of actual race data to challenge the status quo.

'Hey, look, it's as easy as just suppressing ones testosterone. There is no other reason than test-suppression. As soon as we do that, men magically turn into women and they're equal. Don't worry about the side-effects of test suppression such as depression and suicide. Those are studies that are extensive, but nevermind them. We have to make Johnny, I mean Joanie, happy. He, I mean she, is a winner and we have to support that.'

Tatar wrote:

shifty principles wrote:

So do away with sex segregation in sports altogether. Girls and boys can try out for the same team. Best players get on, everyone else is cut. Fair! Equal!

Think a lot of girls make the team?

That's not what I'm saying. Let's be softer on this instead of trying to enforce absolute separations.

If I could speak to that high schooler I'd say while I understand this feels like a disadvantage, anything which reduces sexism is positive and including trans people would do that.

Ok ladies, we need you all to subjugate your own right to fair competition, but it’s for the greater good of letting biological males live out the fantasy that they are actually women. This is progress!

Disgusted wrote:

Tatar wrote:

Look around you. Do you think the people on this thread wanting to censor trans identities on this thread are doing so because they care about women's sport? A big threat to equality is absolute definitions because it reinforces stereotypes. Their real motivation is to be able to say women or blacks or LGBT people are 100% totally completely different from them so then they can justify inequality.

I was unaware that chromosomal configuration was a factor in perpetuating stereotypes. Excepting extremely rare instances of genetic abnormality, biological sex adheres about as closely as possible to the absolute. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that women and men are different. I know that's a radical concept, but it does allow the girls I coach to compete with their peers on a level playing field.

This.

just to be clear wrote:

Tatar wrote:

If I could speak to that high schooler I'd say while I understand this feels like a disadvantage, anything which reduces sexism is positive and including trans people would do that.

Nobody is suggesting that trans people should not be included in sports.

Naive. Imagine you happily live as a woman and most of your friends have long accepted you or don't even know. Are you really going to accept the ignominy of outing yourself at a competition? Are the men in the changing room really going to treat you as just another dude?

shifty principles wrote:

Tatar wrote:

That's not what I'm saying. Let's be softer on this instead of trying to enforce absolute separations.

If I could speak to that high schooler I'd say while I understand this feels like a disadvantage, anything which reduces sexism is positive and including trans people would do that.

Ok ladies, we need you all to subjugate your own right to fair competition, but it’s for the greater good of letting biological males live out the fantasy that they are actually women. This is progress!

The argument seems to be women will suffer if trans women compete. The argument is flawed because it's in the girl's interest to tackle sexism and accepting trans people does that. What is gained is taken away with the other hand if you allow biological deterministic absolutes. This isn't asking anyone to "take one for the team" or "the greater good" it's just arguing her rights are tied up with the same rights of others.

Tatar wrote:

shifty principles wrote:

Ok ladies, we need you all to subjugate your own right to fair competition, but it’s for the greater good of letting biological males live out the fantasy that they are actually women. This is progress!

The argument seems to be women will suffer if trans women compete. The argument is flawed because it's in the girl's interest to tackle sexism and accepting trans people does that. What is gained is taken away with the other hand if you allow biological deterministic absolutes. This isn't asking anyone to "take one for the team" or "the greater good" it's just arguing her rights are tied up with the same rights of others.

Biological deterministic absolutes? Did you come up with that phrase on your own? Anyway, you have convinced me. Biology be damned! That sh*t was never really science in the first place. The absolute best way to protect a girl's interests in sports is, without a doubt, for her to lose every race to a man.