Alfred Kipketer banned for two years

Coevett wrote:

I just did a search and there was only one thread on Kipketer's suspension, and that was made more than a week after by somebody who couldn't believe that nobody else had started one (I think I was on vacation at the time else I would have).

I found Kipketer's suspension, which was made around the same time as Kipsang's and Patrick Siele's suspensions, mentioned in several threads.

DId you read the thread you found? It was posted one day (not more than 1 week) after the AIU posted the announcement on their website, and apparently before the AIU posted it on Twitter.

I don't understand this sentiment that wants to falsely argue that topics aren't being discussed. They are always discussed and discussed to death. Now the same instances are discussed twice, first when the suspension is announced, and again when the first instance decision is announced.

Perhaps this perceived lack of interest in whereabouts failure violations is due to a realization among most fans that an accusation of whereabouts failures is not the same as an accusation of taking banned substances, so it is not worthy of the same level of heightened attention except among a small minority of extreme believers. WADA also finds it less worthy, attributing a nominal ban of 2 years versus 4 years.

You can only be Chicken Little for so long before people lose interest.

I look forward to your contributions of other recent whereabouts failures of athletes from Grenada (I found no thread started) or South Africa or yet another athlete from the USA unable to be where he should be according to ADAMs.

rule readerr wrote:

Situation has changed in that we are now having more and more high profile whereabouts cases and some are wondering if the sport is going to sink because of the incompetent personal skills of athletes.

You say "some", but as far as I can tell, you are the only one.

rekrunner wrote:

rule readerr wrote:

Situation has changed in that we are now having more and more high profile whereabouts cases and some are wondering if the sport is going to sink because of the incompetent personal skills of athletes.

You say "some", but as far as I can tell, you are the only one.

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The sport is sinking and a large part is due to drug noise and whereabouts failures of the incompetent will compound this.

4 infractions. Say 10 test visits a year. Nearly half the time he is ducking and diving and not where he says he will be.

How many more East Africans would have bern banned if they had a whereabouts system and proper testing for the last few decades not the last few years.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

4 infractions. Say 10 test visits a year. Nearly half the time he is ducking and diving and not where he says he will be.

How many more East Africans would have bern banned if they had a whereabouts system and proper testing for the last few decades not the last few years.

Maybe you should ask disgraced doper Paula Radcliffe what she thinks?

rule readerr wrote:

rekrunner wrote:

You say "some", but as far as I can tell, you are the only one.

The sport is sinking and a large part is due to drug noise and whereabouts failures of the incompetent will compound this.

You said "some". Who else is wondering if the sport is going to sink because of the incompetent personal skills of athletes?

It is expected that apathy would set in. Pretty normal human behaviour. Also, he didn't create and drama about it.

With approximately 60 or so Kenyans banned for doping or whereabout failures or ABP anomalies, a guy apparently shrugging it off as Kipketer did isn't going to be big news. If he claimed that the doping control officer was extorting him or tampering or calling in advance or something like that, that would generate interest.

I think (and I may be wrong) that the primarily European style of scheduling and order and organisation put upon people who don't live by the clock, in the same way, is going to have its hiccups.

I wonder If access to Ethiopia was as easy they would also have many people suspended.

Different cultures.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

4 infractions. Say 10 test visits a year. Nearly half the time he is ducking and diving and not where he says he will be.

How many more East Africans would have bern banned if they had a whereabouts system and proper testing for the last few decades not the last few years.

I don't know if any of these misses could be honestly described as "ducking and diving".

The "whereabouts" problem can be addressed with more thorough education, awareness, and due diligence.

It might also help to translate the relevant WADA documents, websites, and apps, into the native language of the athletes.

As far as I'm aware, ADAMs is not available in the native language of East Africans. It is available in "English, French, Spanish, German, Japanese, Russian, Italian, Turkish, Dutch, Chinese, Korean and Arabic".

This is great for Europeans, Americans, Asians, and Oceanians, but not so great for Africans.

Unless they speak and read English, French, Dutch, or one of these other languages, this puts them at a disadvantage.

Some people are just incapable of following and maintaining the most simplistic instructions in whatever language such is presented.

No where in normal jurisprudence is there anything like these requirements for the guilty let alone the innocent.

In UK soccer all is delegated to a highly competent club official and there are no home visits !

rule readerr wrote:

Some people are just incapable of following and maintaining the most simplistic instructions in whatever language such is presented.

No where in normal jurisprudence is there anything like these requirements for the guilty let alone the innocent.

In UK soccer all is delegated to a highly competent club official and there are no home visits !

Maybe "some" but surely not "all".

Yes -- WADA anti-doping requirements are unprecedented, but recognized as necessary, by the athletes, by the federations, by athlete's unions, by governments, and by courts.

The UK soccer system would not achieve the anti-doping goal.

rekrunner wrote:

rule readerr wrote:

Some people are just incapable of following and maintaining the most simplistic instructions in whatever language such is presented.

No where in normal jurisprudence is there anything like these requirements for the guilty let alone the innocent.

In UK soccer all is delegated to a highly competent club official and there are no home visits !

Maybe "some" but surely not "all".

Yes -- WADA anti-doping requirements are unprecedented, but recognized as necessary, by the athletes, by the federations, by athlete's unions, by governments, and by courts.

The UK soccer system would not achieve the anti-doping goal.

Doping in sport is a moral panic.

When this sets in all forms of controls are deemed normal.

That does not mean that they are correct or will be sustained or will be sustainable.

It may well be that we end up finding that banned drugs are actually better for you rather than injuries and operations.A moral panic denies such a debate taking place.

As for just some being incapable of self admin, well I rest my case there.

UK soccer is deemed compliant even though the PFA drove a whole set of SUV’s through the Code.

rule readerr wrote:

Doping in sport is a moral panic.

When this sets in all forms of controls are deemed normal.

That does not mean that they are correct or will be sustained or will be sustainable.

It may well be that we end up finding that banned drugs are actually better for you rather than injuries and operations.A moral panic denies such a debate taking place.

As for just some being incapable of self admin, well I rest my case there.

UK soccer is deemed compliant even though the PFA drove a whole set of SUV’s through the Code.

Did PFA drive a set of SUV's through the Code? What did the PFA do that could be considered non-compliant?

WADA, and the WADA Code, leaves much of the details about how drug testing is implemented to the sports federations and the NADOs. Whatever implementation details the PFA decides has very little impact on what USADA, or UKAD, or UKA, or the AIU decides, with respect to complying with the Code.

With 60 + failed doping tests in the last few years dopers have had to change tact. As a former British colony Most Kenyans can read and speak English. All the runners have mobiles as well they know exactly what they are doing. They just got used to advance warnings of tests and bribes as was shown in the Kiprop case. As an East African doping apologist you probably think he is innocent.

Both have doping violation bans and are in the same category

I know you are looking for all possible ways to incriminate Kenyans but the bit about English language? Have you watched interviews with top Kenyan athletes?

Focus on facts and leave the fake news for the media and politicians.

The vast majority of Kenyans with a sixth grade education speak very acceptable English even though their preferred language of choice may be Swahili. English is the language of the government, the law courts, the newspapers and most other official functions so in that sense most Kenyans know English or can get by an English acceptably.

Compared with Ethiopia, English use in Kenya is way ahead of Ethiopia, where English is really a foreign language (in Ethiopia)and only known by people with a good university education or similar. I’ve traveled in both countries extensively and believe me - it’s night and day.

All Commonwealth countries use English as the de facto language and the lingua franca. If you go to Nairobi, the middle and upper classes often prefer to use English exclusively with their families thinking that it will give their children a more useful passport to success in business and life in general.

PFA would not accept testing out of work.

So UKAD changed the rules or interpretation so not to have anytime testing.

Pretty central compromise of core WADA principles.

So the effect of PFA was highly impactful.

ukathleticscoach wrote:

With 60 + failed doping tests in the last few years dopers have had to change tact. As a former British colony Most Kenyans can read and speak English. All the runners have mobiles as well they know exactly what they are doing. They just got used to advance warnings of tests and bribes as was shown in the Kiprop case. As an East African doping apologist you probably think he is innocent.

Both have doping violation bans and are in the same category

We weren't talking about "failed doping tests" or any "dopers".

We were talking about "4 missed tests" and the "whereabouts system", and possibly the half-dozen recent whereabouts failures.

I gather from many Kenyan post-race interviews that the ability to speak English varies widely.

I don't apologize for any East African doping -- this is a common and ignorant (or dishonest) misperception.

Contrary to what you suggest is probable, I think Kipketer was guilty of 4 missed tests.

I think he has four missed tests , but I think there will be lots more in the potting shed ready to germinate and bring the sport to its knees with unreasonable demands that a criminal would not have to face.

rule readerr wrote:

PFA would not accept testing out of work.

So UKAD changed the rules or interpretation so not to have anytime testing.

Pretty central compromise of core WADA principles.

So the effect of PFA was highly impactful.

WADA leaves it up to the sports federations and the NADOs.

Whatever UKAD and the PFA negotiate with respect to implementing out of competition testing, and who gets tested, remains compliant with the Code.

In any case, it looks like your information is not correct. It looks like the PFA enters the training location and time by default as the "1 hour" window, but if the athlete is late, or leaves early, or misses training, then the athlete specifies an alternate address and time -- which could be his/her home. Any athlete in any sport can apply the same pattern, and many likely do.

Athletics Kenya would do well to have "PAA" for Kenyan athletes that manages whereabouts as closely as the PFA does for its athletes. Rather than being a compromise of core principles, I think WADA would welcome this change that ensures accurate whereabouts.