Are Americans not concerned about the national debt any longer?

This is disingenuous—the GOP is way worse on the issue of financial responsibility and debt. As pointed out all ready, the only use the debt as a political weapon against their opponents while pretty consistently doing nothing but MASSIVELY INCREASING the national debt when they have power. What have the last few GOP administrations done about debt?

The major problem with the modern GOP is they claim to be fiscally conservative but are really very fiscally irresponsible. Politically they know that tax cuts play to their base. They also know that when their base screams for “spending cuts” what their base means is “cut everyone’s benefits but MINE”. Cutting Medicare and social security—which needs to happen right NOW and which needs to be applied to BOOMERS and CURRENT retirees—would be political suicide for the GOP despite all their rhetoric on spending. Thus, the major problem with GOP tax cuts is they NEVER “get to govt spending cuts” that they promise and they never will.

How dumb are people? Why do they forget so quickly? The modern GOP is NOT fiscally conservative. They have cut taxes before—several times in most of our lifetimes—and they NEVER get to cutting spending.

I suppose a tax cut would be fine IF they passed legislation slashing government spending FIRST. In other words, cut spending by X amount so they know how much less revenue they’ll be taking in and then give X amount back to tax payers. But that’s not what happens. We’ve seen this playbook before—recently.

The GOP controlled both houses of Congress AND had a GOP POTUS for 6 of the 8 Bush II years—this was not that long ago, the early 2000s. They passed a massive tax cut. What else did they do? Well they.... 1) said the tax cuts would “pay for themselves” by driving economic growth (aka magical thinking) 2) they simultaneously MASSIVELY INCREASED government spending!

What happened? We had a short term boom followed by a MASSIVE economic collapse AND a MASSIVE increase in the national debt. But since the economic collapse happened several years later dumb people with short attention spans that are obsessed with tax cuts who think that the minute tax legislation is passed the full effect of said tax legislation is felt—are and where mentally unable to connect the collapse to the very bad tax & spend policies of the GOP.

So, what is happened with the current Trump / GOP administration? 1) the GOP said the same thing about “tax cuts paying for themselves” by driving economic growth 2) CEOs were smart and know that if they throw peons short term benefits (like a one time bonus rather than a permanent increase in worker salaries...which are peanuts to the CEOs and which do nothing to address the real issue of wage stagnation) they could connect that to the tax cuts and say “see trickle down works! What’s good for corporations is good for individuals”...meanwhile those same corporations pocketed > 90% of the benefit from the TRUMP/GOP tax cut 3) the TRUMP/GOP simultaneously with the tax cut insisted on MASSIVE increases in defense spending, infrastructure spending, and spending for a southern “boarder” wall with no plan to pay for any of it—even though they didn’t accomplish all of this agenda they still did some real damage and ballooned the national debt.

The TRUMP /GOP tax cuts had the same exact effect as prior GOP administration cuts—a huge increase in the national debt and followed immediately by an economic collapse that disproportionately effects individuals (who, yeah, got a short term increase in $) while corporations make out like bandits (their cuts are permanent). Plus, all the benefits (short term) will be attributed to the current Trump admin, while the long term effects will be blamed on the Biden / Harris admin & the Dems when the $hit hits the fan in the next few years.

Why do you tax obsessed Morans not understand that at this point in our history the ONLY rational approach is an INCREASE in taxes coupled with a DECREASE in spending. We owe too much already to get tax cuts. Tax cuts—a focus of Trumpers / the GOP are a bad idea, fiscally irresponsible, and morally reprehensible.

In a system with only two major parties, like in the US, it will be difficult to bring it up. You will lose voteres by doing anything. The poor as so poor that you cant take anything from them and the rich have to much influence (it should t be like that in a true democracy).

In the end US will be forced to reduce the living of the poor and there will be massive upprisings that will damage the economy furter. I have my stocks in the US markert because it is so predictable, even with Trump.

bfef wrote:

roller coaster wrote:

Your grandma's savings account at the bank used to return 5% interest per year. What do you get?

Really? This is all you've got?

That’s actually a big indicator. Granted their are other options to keep money and have it grow. A savings account is about as safe as it gets.

Realistically, like others here have said much better than I could, the Republicans simply use this as an issue when it fits their political agenda. They've never actually "stood up" for this as an issue, otherwise they wouldn't have let Trump run YUGE record deficits every year of his tenure.

I get it that the fringe leftists like AOC are mostly idiots and shouldn't actually be allowed to implement their policies... but the Republican part as a whole (mostly) is completely morally bankrupt. They let Trump steamroll them, for political expediency. The part of "values" had no values at all.

Swaglord_the_real_one_1_one_1 wrote:

Realistically, like others here have said much better than I could, the Republicans simply use this as an issue when it fits their political agenda. They've never actually "stood up" for this as an issue, otherwise they wouldn't have let Trump run YUGE record deficits every year of his tenure.

I get it that the fringe leftists like AOC are mostly idiots and shouldn't actually be allowed to implement their policies... but the Republican part as a whole (mostly) is completely morally bankrupt. They let Trump steamroll them, for political expediency. The part of "values" had no values at all.

I’ve noticed this is a standard response “Well the Republicans ran up the debt when they were in power!”

Who cares? It’s a problem regardless of who is running up the debt. Yes, the Repulbicans are hypocrites who say their anti deficits but run up the debt regardless. At least the Dems are honest about not caring about deficits before running up the debt.

The scary part is that neither major party really cares or has a plan to pay back the debt (or at least stop gathering more of it) and at some point we are going to print out too much money causing our currency (and the world economy) to crash.

energeticlotuseater wrote:

I’ve noticed this is a standard response “Yes, the Repulbicans are hypocrites who say their anti deficits but run up the debt regardless. At least the Dems are honest about not caring about deficits before running up the debt.

I think the Republican hypocrisy is causing many Democrats and Independents (including me) to re-evaluate their thinking on deficits. Say what you will about Democratic programs like Obamacare, but the Democrats made a significant effort to reduce its fiscal impact (see link below). Similarly, Democrats usually talk about raising taxes on the rich to pay for programs that benefit the middle class and poorer Americans - they're at least looking for funding for their proposed spending.

That said, if Republicans are going to run up the debt no matter what when they get power, Democrats seem to be coming to the conclusion that they are never going to be able to implement their proposals for infrastructure, health care, green energy, etc if they play by different rules, and thus are beginning to suggest that red ink may be the least bad option. I think that's dangerous, but I also believe that if we are going to run deficits, infrastructure is a better thing to spend the money on than tax cuts and wars.

Voters punish politicians who raise taxes or cut spending, so until voters quit electing charlatans who claim that they can eliminate the debt by cutting funding for PBS getting rid of some nebulous "waste and fraud" (which no one can seem to actually find), expect the debt to keep rising and no one in power to take it seriously.

mallet finger the marvelous wrote:

Why do you tax obsessed Morans not understand that at this point in our history the ONLY rational approach is an INCREASE in taxes coupled with a DECREASE in spending. We owe too much already to get tax cuts. Tax cuts—a focus of Trumpers / the GOP are a bad idea, fiscally irresponsible, and morally reprehensible.

Didn't Arthur Laffer tell us we could raise more tax revenue if we cut the tax rate? Lower tax rate stimulates higher growth, and therefore more tax revenue. That's what we were told. And he received the Presidential Medal of Freedom last year for this great insight.

When we had rare surplus in late 90s, Gore said we should "shore up the SS fund" (i.e. pay down the debt). Bush said, "It's not the government's money. It's people's money. We must give it back to people." Look who won the election. And remember that most GOP voters do not believe SS and Medicare are "some kind of government programs."

If you didn't have a job, you wouldn't care.

Yes. Buy only til you get to the other side of the curve. Most economists figure that is around 60% or so so we are well below the rates that maximize government income.

Just Another LRC Idiot wrote:

Didn't Arthur Laffer tell us we could raise more tax revenue if we cut the tax rate? Lower tax rate stimulates higher growth, and therefore more tax revenue. That's what we were told. And he received the Presidential Medal of Freedom last year for this great insight.

When we had rare surplus in late 90s, Gore said we should "shore up the SS fund" (i.e. pay down the debt). Bush said, "It's not the government's money. It's people's money. We must give it back to people." Look who won the election. And remember that most GOP voters do not believe SS and Medicare are "some kind of government programs."

Both political parties increase the debt while the public argues whose fault it is. The bankers don't really care which party is in control.

Obamacare was a scam to tax the young to pay for the old who were claiming insurance benefits, so that insurance executives could continue to expect large bonuses and shareholders could expect big dividend payouts.

Government Debt controls the 'store of value' function of money to protect from the hyper-inflation in Germany in the early 1920s.

No reason for the government to pay for money with debt. Just print the money and pay the salaries and fund the programs. The way it is now is a brilliant scam of JD Rockefeller Sr.

Banks control the money supply...the fed board is not 'independent' and not interested in the public's welfare except to the extent that too many poor people can result in too many defaults. This strategy backfired during the RMBS collapse, because the banks were stuck with real property that nobody wanted.

Let’s summarize what the debt really is.

It isn’t the government going to the bank, taking out a loan with a payment plan to pay it back.

The government brings in tax revenue and has expenses.

When the revenue doesn’t cover the expenditures it issues bonds to bring in cash to cover costs.

When people or entities buy bonds, they aren’t looking for a payback as much as a safe place to park their cash and maybe get a little interest.

They hold onto them for years.

And over time, more people buy bonds and that helps sustain the large debt.

The US debt will be a problem when there is a better place for people with excess money to keep their cash risk free.

Really, issuing debt has the same effect as raising taxes. People are giving money to the government to pay for things.

Except in buying debt, people can show some equity in they’re holdings and sell later for cash.

And there is always someone there to buy. Now, at least.

No.

Pick a specific item you have issue with.

This

Swaglord_the_real_one_1_one_1 wrote:

Realistically, like others here have said much better than I could, the Republicans simply use this as an issue when it fits their political agenda. They've never actually "stood up" for this as an issue, otherwise they wouldn't have let Trump run YUGE record deficits every year of his tenure.

I get it that the fringe leftists like AOC are mostly idiots and shouldn't actually be allowed to implement their policies... but the Republican part as a whole (mostly) is completely morally bankrupt. They let Trump steamroll them, for political expediency. The part of "values" had no values at all.

Becoming more like the Democratic party every day.

A. Neither Party cares.

B. You will, at least for 4 years, hear of our economic ills(ok all ills basically) being blamed on Trump.

Just Another LRC Idiot wrote:

mallet finger the marvelous wrote:

Why do you tax obsessed Morans not understand that at this point in our history the ONLY rational approach is an INCREASE in taxes coupled with a DECREASE in spending. We owe too much already to get tax cuts. Tax cuts—a focus of Trumpers / the GOP are a bad idea, fiscally irresponsible, and morally reprehensible.

Didn't Arthur Laffer tell us we could raise more tax revenue if we cut the tax rate? Lower tax rate stimulates higher growth, and therefore more tax revenue. That's what we were told."

That actually happened in the 1980s. Any Normas tax cut was followed by a dramatic increase in government revenue. It’s because the economy did very very well for several years, bringing more money into the treasury.

I don't care about no stinking national debt. I want to spend as much as possible on myself now because the whole thing is going to die off soon. When you have nutjobs in charge like Ronald Reagan ("Trees are the biggest source of pollution, we should harvest as many as possible for profit.") and Moscow Mitch McConnell, there is really no hope for a future. The greedheads are killing us all with glee, so it is best to be greedy yourself.

What happened to the Tea Party you asked ? Well, the Black man is no longer President.