Seth James DeMoor is FIT

INSANE definitely!

That was in trail? Most of the top guys from each country were in the 15k the day before. Waiting on your response to the XC results though?

The sport has actual rankings for those of you whom don't follow MUT. You are also able to filter by country so you can find your crushes in Colorado. These rankings are based on PERFORMANCES and not opinion from a basement -

https://itra.run/runners-ranking

These are ranking from trail only with more emphasis given to ultra distances so its weak at best for determining a runners overall ability across different types of races and even biased when comparing say a 100 miler vs a 10k mountain runner

Yes, we had 3 World champs from USA that weekend! Grayson, Gray and Walms. Gray has a slew of global medals. Jim had a few poor performances at World champs in ultra with this result being his first medal. Grayson had a debut medal in argentina it looks like

https://trailrunner.com/trail-news/joe-gray-and-grayson-murphy-win-gold-medals-in-argentina/

That’s an incorrect assumption and you’re not understanding the ranking system, which is why the African PM is ranked 2nd.

coloradocrybaby wrote:

These are ranking from trail only with more emphasis given to ultra distances so its weak at best for determining a runners overall ability across different types of races and even biased when comparing say a 100 miler vs a 10k mountain runner

How wrong? What road, xc or track results are taken into account? Also, PM is ranked because of his sz result which only places him 3rd. I would say his course records at other sub ultra events are way stronger and he should be placed 1st. Kilian has zero results at World champs iaaf for any discipline. PM has won there against stellar competition. Jim won a title against Pupi who was not even top 3 Italian that yr as their top athletes were in Grays event in the 15k.

Will make it easier for you as I can tell you don't have access to the ranking database -

Jim Walmsley (HOKA)

World Athletics Season Best Road, 1:03:59 HM / 2:15:05 (22nd Place at USA Championship)

World Athletics Long Mountain Champion

ITRA Ranking, 954 (#1 in World) - 40 Races, 30 Victories

2019-06-29 Western States Endurance Run 2019 160.70km / 5360m+ 14:09:28 1 / 369 966

2018-04-07 Lake Sonoma 50 2018 75.90km / 3500m+ 05:51:16 1 / 292 958

2017-07-29 Speedgoat 50k 2017 54.30km / 3425m+ 05:04:55 1 / 226 950

2018-06-23 Western States Endurance Run 2018 161.60km / 5370m+ 14:30:04 1 / 299 950

2017-07-22 Kendall Mountain Run 2017 19.30km / 1300m+ 01:31:05 1 / 236 947

Joe Gray (HOKA)

World Athletics Season Best Road, 1:04:52 HM / Did Not Qualify, Marathon

World Athletics Short Mountain Champion

ITRA Ranking, 916 (#12 in World)- 46 Races, 29 Victories

2019-09-15 Drei Zinnen Alpine Run 2019 17.50km / 1350m+ 01:23:04 2 / 679 924

2017-08-19 Pikes Peak 2017 - Ascent 21.00km / 2360m+ 02:08:19 1 / 1842 918

2019-12-01 Xterra Kualoa Trail Run 21k 2019 21.00km / 520m+ 01:21:00 1 / 580 916

2017-07-16 Barr Trail Mountain Race 2017 20.30km / 1110m+ 01:28:34 1 / 333 915

2019-08-24 Pikes Peak 2019 - Ascent 21.00km / 2360m+ 02:08:59 1 / 1660 913

Big differences here not taken into account. Many of Jim's events are at less competitive events. Most of Grays results are from races without lottery so any top athlete can enter including Gray has raced many Africans in his events whereas Jim has only raced a few of them in his events where lottery protects the top athletes in a weaker field. I follow both athletes results and I also notice there are some results missing from Grays wins in 2019 which is odd. Do athletes need to submit their results or does their federation for this site? I saw the ranking list you attach and it was confusing, how is it that there are guys ranked ahead of people that have beaten them each time? Gray has raced both #4 and #5 multiple times and beaten them, weird they are ranked ahead.

Also of note PRs

Jim: 29:00 10k, 1:03 HM, 0 medals or top placings in XC and zero top placings or medals globally for road.

Gray: 28:18 10k, 1:03 HM, multiple global and national medals in XC/trail and a few road titles for ultra 50k.

Head to head: Gray leads 2-0?? I found only 2 results a 12k on road and one XC championship in Colorado. Maybe they've raced again and I miss?

Both are studs much better than me but I feel we should fairly assess athletes and not just merely accept random info given. Much of that info on itra doesn't take into account level of competition or whether the race has a lottery thus keeping some top newcomers out of the event to vie for a win against regulars.

You are incorrect. iTRA ranks I. How competitive the field is and the course. I think you’re missing the fact that Joe is getting older and why he lost this year and was unable to qualify for the Trials in his one attempt (just like Walmsley, one attempt). And you are being deceptive as Walmsley has a 2:15 to Gray 2:30 PR on legal course. Also, Jim 4:04 Mile and 13:52 whereas Joe has not gone sub-4:10’or sub-14:00.

You are cherry picking. Gray is the all-time USA Mountain GOAT. Jim is the freak future.

I dont know anything regarding the trials comment but I assumed he was focused on snowshoeing I accept I could be wrong, guess we would need to ask him directly. As for PRs I chose 10k and above because 5k and mile are irrelevant for these 2 mountain guys. Also, Jim ran those in college not as a pro and gray ran 28:18 which I would argue says he can break 13:50. Not sure Gray has run any miles or 5k at Stanford like Jim? If I am cherry picking then aren't you? I also posted their head to head results. Again I've said this but times are meaningless. Carbon tech for footwear has changed everything. Gray ran his times before carbon tech and Jim marathon, HM bests are with carbon tech. Head to head with neither of them using carbon, gray won both times