ummm wrote:
No, I'm not way off, for one, I actually work in this field, you just dont understand, no one is running for 2 hours at 90% of Vo2max(that is circa 10km pace for elite athletes), some who could sustain this intensity for two hours would be an otherworldly genetic freak. I think you may be confusing HRMax with Vo2max where sustaining 90% of HRMax is possible but still unlikely for two hours. You are looking at 80-85% of Vo2Max as the true maximum capabilities of an elite runner.
You are also leaving out the huge variability here, running economy because you do not understand the interactions.
And btw, heres the final nail in your coffin, this is actually where the actual 67ml/kg/min number comes from.
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https://i2.wp.com/www.sportsscientists.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Running-economy-and-max-for-2-hour-marathon.png[/IMG]
"The graph above attempts to establish this. It estimates the VO2max of the runner for two conditions: One is that the athlete is running at 80% of maximum intensity (shown in red) or 85% of maximum intensity (shown in green).
Running-economy-and-max-for-2-hour-marathon
So, for a given running economy, you can now see what maximal capacity might be required, or vice-versa, given a VO2max, you can estimate the running economy required for two different conditions.
Two examples: High economy vs lower economy
The white lines show 2 examples. Example A is based on the measured economy of African athletes (including some Olympic medalists) who have a measured economy of around 190 ml/kg/min. At 2-hour marathon pace, they use 67 ml/kg/min. That athlete, running at 80% of maximum, must have a VO2 max of 84 ml/kg/min. If they were able to sustain 85% (which I don’t think is possible), they would have an estimated VO2max of 79 ml/kg/min.
Example B shows the European athletes plotted in the very first graph of this post. Here, a running economy of 210 ml/kg/km requires a much higher maximal capacity; in this case, either 92 ml/kg/min (at 80%) or 87 ml/kg/min (at 85%). The point is clearly that in order to run a sub-2 hour marathon, the athlete requires BOTH an exceptionally good economy, and a high maximal capacity. I guess the third option is that they could get away with worse economy if they were able to sustain 90% of maximum for that length of time, but I don’t see this as very likely (but not impossible).
The Zersenay Tadese example: Something missing in the picture
So where does this leave us on the question of the sub-2 hour marathon? On paper, or in theory, a two-hour marathon is possible because we have seen running economies of 180 to 190ml/kg/km, and we also see runners with VO2max values of 80 ml/kg/min. According to the graph, a runner with these “characteristics” can run the 2-hour marathon. However, I’ve yet to see the two together, with the exception of Zersenay Tadese, with his measured economy of 150 ml/kg/min and VO2max of 83 ml/kg/min. However, as I said earlier, there’s something not quite right there…
Here’s the problem: With that kind of economy, Tadese would be able to run at a speed of 2:50/km while using only 53 ml/kg/min. Think about that for a moment: he is running at only 64% of his maximal capacity, at 2-hour marathon pace. He would be jogging to the world record if that was true.
Even his 10km pace of ± 2:40/km represents an underperformance, because at that pace, he would only be using 56 ml/kg/min, or 68% of his maximum. We know that elite athletes run at at least 90% of maximum for 10km, which means Tadese should be sustaining a VO2 of 75 ml/kg/min, which, given his economy, predicts a 10 km time of just outside 20 minutes!
Clearly, something is wrong with that picture. I actually emailed Carl Foster about this a while back, to ask about it, and he graciously replied, but then my computer got stolen, along with that email. So Carl, if you are reading this, feel free to chime in! I seem to recall that it had something to do with the timing of measurements – Tadese’s VO2max and running economy were not measured at the same time, and therefore using them together created a problem. And this is crucial – when we make this kind of estimation, we’re assuming that VO2max and economy are measured together. And if they are, then the more economical a runner, the lower their VO2max is likely to be"
Now, can you please realise that you are talking nonsense.
Excuse me, who the heck are you? Why are you quoting data about Tadesse that was known to be unreliable many years ago.
