The quest for sub 9 min 3000m in two years

Read "Build your running body" by pete magill.

I have, terrible training programs.

Get you a coach. Only the best.Hire JS !

You need a good coach. wrote:

Get you a coach. Only the best.Hire JS !

No, he is too busy with his top world class athletes that no one ever heard of.

But seriously, let's have a discussion about 3000m training. Where are all master runners?

young masters runner wrote:

I have, terrible training programs.

If you know that it's a terrible training plan, you must know what a good training plan is. What's the point of asking us? I was willing to help before your comment.

I’m hoping to crack 9 in the 3k this fall following an amended JD 5k plan. So far seems to be doing the trick. I am definitely feeling that 72 second 400s seem doable as I finish up phase 2 and all the associated R work.

What kind of a runner are you? Coming up in distance or mostly 5k and above?

43 and me. wrote:

young masters runner wrote:

I have, terrible training programs.

If you know that it's a terrible training plan, you must know what a good training plan is. What's the point of asking us? I was willing to help before your comment.

You told me to read a bad book. I want to hear people's experience and not Pete's experience. Pete is an anomaly. He trained hard in his youth. That's why he become good as a masters runner.

young masters runner wrote:

PR 9'41"

Actually this is my 3000 m split in a 16:19 5000 m race from 2018.

Assume I have 2 years to train, hopefully with no major injuries. Let's say I'm able to handle 60-70 km per week.

Right now I'm not in good shape after some injuries. I would say perhaps 9'50" on barely 30 km/week.

How should I structure my training towards a sub 9 min? Should I have different phases (JD style) or is that outdated now?

Should I train all components at the same time instead?

Stop getting injured. That's the first step of a good training method.

I had some concrete questions. Try answering them.

young masters runner wrote:

But seriously, let's have a discussion about 3000m training. Where are all master runners?

Base training is easy

a) do 100-150 km/week. Lots of 40-50 min runs and try do go 70-90 mins 1-2x/week.

b) do a lot of 10k->MP training.

c) Do some hills, 150s, 200-400s at fast pace to stay comfortable running fast.

Actually doing it is hard. But if you can't put in like 12 weeks of that type of training, whats the point in trying to optimize the specifics of workouts. The gains from going from 60km to 100km are going to far out weigh the differences between running your workouts at 5k pace versus 10k pace.

There are now dozens of leading theories, and many of them will get you there. They all share similarities though.

The best thing to do is identify your weaknesses. As a runner, you could create an aerobic profile and work on what needs improvement. A good program will train everything but with more emphasis on what you suck at.

Say you can't run a 3 min km. You also can't run a 72 comfortably. Your first goal should be to comfortably run under 36 for 200s, or under 18 for 100s, or even better under 9 (ideally 8 or 7.5) for 50m. Then build that up so you are able to do 200s, 400s, etc much faster than goal race pace. You can start from the bottom and get your 50m time down and build all the way up to the 400s, eventually to Ks and then the 3k.

While doing that, build mileage and get a good long run in. You can do the 50s or 100s in any run.

Once you have hit the mileage you have time for, it's time to run it faster. Improve your aerobic speed until you plateau. This is the pace at about first ventilatory threshold/ a bit under M pace. I'd say do most of your running at this effort, except the short fast stuff you do often.

Then intro M pace, then T pace, I pace and before you know it you've completed a funnel (where your short 50m time at the beginning and comfortable 3km race pace at the end converge). At that point you are likely only 6 weeks away of KM repeats or whatever interval at RP training from hitting your goal. Over 2 years you could accomplish a funnel like that. But the key would be to never over train, never burn out, and never get injured. If you get injured on 60km a week there's a major issue anyway!

At 60km per week you better do some quick running daily. Like strides, short hill reps, surges in easy runs, etc. Running quickly is a skill.

young masters runner wrote:

43 and me. wrote:

If you know that it's a terrible training plan, you must know what a good training plan is. What's the point of asking us? I was willing to help before your comment.

You told me to read a bad book. I want to hear people's experience and not Pete's experience. Pete is an anomaly. He trained hard in his youth. That's why he become good as a masters runner.

Ouch!--"bad book"? LOL! First, BYRB isn't about my experience. It's about how the different components of your body work when you're running--your muscles, CT, energy systems, cardio system, nervous system, etc. And then it's about how training affects each of those systems, the better to create a training plan that integrates workouts targeting those systems in a way that leads to top fitness. My last (and I mean "last!" because I've seriously run out of things to say) book, Fast 5K, distills the rather lengthy BYRB into a much shorter version directly laying out the workouts and how they affect your body's systems. And I think the training plans are solid for races from 3K to the half marathon. BUT (big "but") the best training plan isn't a "plan" at all; it's a good coach. Because we're all just a little bit different. And a good, experienced coach can see things in your running in an instant that a book will never understand--and can react to how your react to training in a way that's beyond the unchanging nature of a book's pages.

All that said, here's my 2 cents: Consistency is more important than anything. No more than 2 hard workouts a week--should include mix of 5K/10K paced reps, tempo, longish (up to 90 sec) hill reps, plenty of volume at a conversational pace, a long run that includes hills every 2nd or 3rd week, and races both above and below your target distance. And mostly, a willingness to cut workouts short on days when it's not happening or you feel niggling pain--because post-40 that's an injury in the making! Good luck!!!