Seb Coe is a fan of the pacing lights: “If our activity is sport, our business is entertainment."

^facts

You guys are acting like if YOU ran with the pace lights at a sub 4 minute mile pace, you'd definitely break the barrier. What???? Obviously one needs to be in light's shape to even be able to stick with it. A light paced performance is easier sure but it's still impressive

and as for the fun spectator aspect, Joshua's 10k record seemed boring to you becuase he wasn't running with anyone, and barely any spectators are allowed in the stands. (there's a pandemic) I believe the lights would have no negative effect on entertainment down the road.

Aouita 84 wrote:

Spot On!

"Go Run One"

pacing and racing are the only 2 skills in our sport. removing one of them makes it less watchable to me, not more.

it's one thing to be in shape to run a time. it's another thing altogether to be able to execute on the day and wavelight makes execution that much easier.

sure human pacers already provide some assistance but they are not infallible and won't take you to the end of the race anyway.

if men are not allowed to pace women how is it that a machine is permitted to pace both men and women?

i'm not discounting the records, i think they're legit, but i'd prefer it if we didn't use wavelight.

LetsRun.com wrote:

Coe talked to the Washington Post for a story in Wednesdays paper. We loved this quote from him.

“If our activity is sport, our business is entertainment,” Sebastian Coe, president of World Athletics, the global governing body for track and field, and himself a four-time Olympic medalist, said in a telephone interview. “We want things that add to the entertainment value of our sport. Pacing lights adds to our understanding; it gives it a bit of excitement, a bit of jeopardy. That’s really what the sport needs.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/10/14/lights-track-running-world-records/?outputType=amp

PS. LetsRun gets a mention in the article as well.

Right - but he's not being honest about the "real" entertainment the lights provide which are the WR's and performances they are helping generate. It's not about understanding, jeopardy - it's about taking a sport that has become largely un-exciting for the average public and generating excitement through WR tilts.

Look the reality is this - the IAAF lost the plot in the 90s and 00s and let doping get out of control to astronomical levels. Why did they do that? Because doping makes you run fast and spectators and sponsors enjoyed 2 decades of chemistry driving constant the re-upping of performances which kept them engaged and opening their pockets. But of course 2 things happened - doping can only take the human race so far - when you start getting the best physical talents also doping (like Bolt) they push performances into territories which become difficult to get close to (precisely what we see in the mens and womens 100 and 200 meters). Secondly, as part of the "global sporting morality check" - led by cycling, baseball, soccer etc, doping that was swept under the carpet suddenly wasn't and the sport had to clean it's act up. Suddenly records aren't so common, world records become few and far between and even legitimate attempts at world records become almost non-existent. The ones that did happen (like Kiprop in the 1500m) end up being uncovered as fueled by doping and nobody wins.

So wavelight comes along and it can be framed up as a "visual spectator aid" even though it's impact on a performance level is largely unknown. It's hard to quantify mental/psychological aids - almost impossible - the only thing we do know is that it is allowing metronomic pace judgment which we all suspect is crucial to overall running efficiency and economy yet again, it's hard to really put a finger on it.

It's why people are all up in arms over "carbon plates in shoes" and believe that this is the reason why guys like Cheptegei are obliterating records - even though carbon fiber in track and field plates has existed for ever. Its the fact that people think you can quantify it by simply saying "they are springs" - seems more explainable than "it's the psychological aid and impact of pace judgement".

So that's the real reason the W.A are all in on this. Wavelight has replaced doping as an ethical means of performance enhancement and in all honesty it kind of is. I would rather have guys chasing lights than shoving needles in their a$$ cheeks - wouldn't you? It just sucks for guys like Bekele who had to go out on track and put themselves at the mercy of their internal pace judgement (or that of their pacemakers) who are now seeing their records get obliterated.

Just a shame for Sebby it's happening in front of like 250 people and not 25'000

I have an even better idea than pacing lights. In Greyhound racing, they use a mechanical rabbit and the dogs chase it around the track. Why not use a mechanical runner, like a look a like of let's say Emil Zatopek, or Viren, or Prefontaine or Ryun and the runners could chase that around the track at set pace for a WR?

rojo wrote:

the lights don't bother me. Why? It levels the playing field, moving forward. To me a WR should be about, who can run the fastest over a certain distance and not about who can afford the best set of rabbits or is organized enough to have 4 sets of timers standing every 100m around the track to give you your last 400 split so you know ever 100 if you are speeding up or slowing down.

Did Bekele (or Geb or Tergat) get splits every 100m?

What matters for world records is to be comparable over time, that's where it matters to have a level playing field. Synthetic surfaces and doping control have been around for decades, so a time now is fairly comparable to one from 1990. But now there's a new thing they didn't have before. How can you compare it?

I say again, Cheptegei and Gidey are NOT the world record holders until they do it without the lights. I don't think they can do it, and I don't care if the WA officials changed the rules to make runners look better than they are. I refuse to recognize it.

Bad Wigins wrote:

What matters for world records is to be comparable over time, that's where it matters to have a level playing field. Synthetic surfaces and doping control have been around for decades, so a time now is fairly comparable to one from 1990. But now there's a new thing they didn't have before. How can you compare it?

Synthetic surfaces and doping control have been around for decades, but they continue to evolve, especially the latter.

Plus, you could have said the same thing about the synthetic surfaces decades ago. In ten years, you'll be able to say that the lights have been around for years.

It would be great for the sport if $Coe with his murky deals would step down, but here he is right for once.

Salvitore Stitchmo wrote:

Look the reality is this - the IAAF lost the plot in the 90s and 00s and let doping get out of control to astronomical levels. Why did they do that? Because doping makes you run fast and spectators and sponsors enjoyed 2 decades of chemistry driving constant the re-upping of performances which kept them engaged and opening their pockets. But of course 2 things happened - doping can only take the human race so far - when you start getting the best physical talents also doping (like Bolt) they push performances into territories which become difficult to get close to (precisely what we see in the mens and womens 100 and 200 meters). Secondly, as part of the "global sporting morality check" - led by cycling, baseball, soccer etc, doping that was swept under the carpet suddenly wasn't and the sport had to clean it's act up.

I disagree if you're saying that the popularity of athletics declined after the EPO records. El G broke one of his records in front of a near empty stadium. There was more atmosphere at covid Monaco this year than on that day. Contrast with just a decade or so before to when Cram and Coe were shattering records in front of packed and frenzied crowds.

People began to realize that the sport was fake by the time El G was dominating.

Most track fans or potential track fans don't want to see doped records. There's a skewed perspective on this forum because the 'fans' here are obviously fans who largely don't mind the blatant doping of the last 30 years. The millions of fans who were lost to the spot in the EPO era don't bother with any athletics forums, let alone LetsDope.

Yeah of course - I agree with that totally and yes, by the time El G was dominating spectator crowds were diminishing and many epic meets around Europe had disappeared (Koblenz, Cologne, Helsinki just to name a few). It was no where near the level of popularity of the Walker/Coe/Ovett/Cram days.

The IAAF just sat back and allowed poor solutions to solve real issues. The rise of East Africa as the distance running powerhouse of the world meant that less national/local athletes got to compete in front of their home crowds, especially in the sports financial and spiritual home in Europe - they were the athletes the spectators wanted to root for and believe in - even as underdogs. Meet directors chased IAAF meet ranking points (which need better performances to get them) because it meant better TV spots and more $$$. They prioritized this over the human spectator element. As interest waned they and the IAAF had no interest in caring about doping because better performances were the only thing that masked over dwindling crowd numbers and entire meets disappearing.

But eventually as doping in sports gained more public spotlight and attention, this was never going to be sustainable. All that ended up happening was the very element propping up the sport (deep, high performing meets) eventually also starting scaling back because it wasn't a doping free-for-all, especially after 2005 where the ability to detect EPO use if you weren't a pro at administering and monitoring it, started impacting the depth of races more than anything and world record attempts became fewer and further between.

A number of bad decisions and "carpet sweeps" (amongst financial embezzlement and corruption) has really killed the sport - a sport that now needs pacemaker lights to give it any interest at all :|

"everything should be the same as when I started following track, the mid-late 1980s"

This is what you're saying. Technology changes have always been part of the sport. You would be complaining about digital watches, I'm sure, in like 1975.

Harambe wrote:

"everything should be the same as when I started following track, the mid-late 1980s"

This is what you're saying. Technology changes have always been part of the sport. You would be complaining about digital watches, I'm sure, in like 1975.

This argument doesn't work because it implies there is no line where technology adversely impacts the essence of the sport. Regardless of where you think the line is, there MUST be some line. Will you say the same thing when gene-editing becomes a thing? What about a Gattaca-like future where perfect athletes can be bred? Or, just dipping our toes into the shallow end of the coming tsunami of futurism, what about biotech, implants to improve muscle recovery, heart efficiency? What about tracks that are in climate controlled bubbles with the atmosphere manipulated in some way? What happens when the next next % comes out in 15 years, and the next generation of carbon plating gives marathoners a 10 percent advantage instead of a 3 percent of advantage? are we still going to say Kipchoge's bouncy shoe-aided 2:00whatever is the marathon world record, or does the new even bouncier bouncy shoe world record of 1:52 count?

in my opinion, we've already crossed that line. we need to draw a firm line now to protect the integrity of the sport. a lightweight shoe that stays on your foot and doesn't give you blisters is where I draw the line. the smooth surface of a track is where i draw the line. you go beyond that and it's no longer this raw, animalistic sport that tests the limits of the human body. it's a science experiment, a spectacle. this wavelight technology is a spectacle to me- it's like the Sub 2 hour marathon attempts that don't count. it's like comparing Olympic Wrestling to the WWE.

while i agree in general, the above post just illustrates the dangers.

he just outlawed starting blocks, spikes and rubber tracks. ooops.