Aidan Puffer 14:25

50th all time

Right behind Alex Maier and in front of Brad Hudson

(side note I never knew Pinkowski ran a 14:19 in High School, makes me wish Chapa ran one in HS, I think he'd be 13:40 for sure

cramister wrote:

50th all time

Right behind Alex Maier and in front of Brad Hudson

(side note I never knew Pinkowski ran a 14:19 in High School, makes me wish Chapa ran one in HS, I think he'd be 13:40 for sure

The all time 5000m list is a bit weak depth wise as so few are run. Puffers indoor 2 mile (or was it a 3200) is roughly the same value. So this isn't some huge step forward in performance levels but he was already at a pretty high level to start with. Definitely one of a half dozen or so of a really talented sophomore class last year. The scary part is he could be like the 3rd best distance guy in the country and never win a state open....

Rudy Chapa ran 28:32 for 10,000 in high school. Do the math.

ocracoke wrote:

In a 5k track race in NJ yesterday. 35th all-time according to Milesplit.

35th all time of what? That doesn't sound fast at all in the big scheme of things unless it's a woman.

Yeah I know but I'm saying he never got the chance to rip that fast 5k, I think he would've taken Lindgren's record and maybe Rupp would never have got it.

and who is this now? he's actually 50th all time in the 5k for hs boys

Yes, now I realize it's pretty great but not phenomenal. Still a kid to watch.

He's gonna burn out like all Tinman athletes.

NJ fan wrote:

He's gonna burn out like all Tinman athletes.

No. His training is incredibly modest for a young HS kid - moderate mileage (50-60 mpw), very easy/moderate workouts. He was seen doing k reps at ~3:05-3:10/k few months ago, which was exactly his CV pace (~10k pace).

That's not gonna burn anyone out. You know nothing about Tinman training, done correctly, it is actually one of the safest methods and develops long-term, not just for a short peak.

For comparison, Nico Young did 1k reps (7x1k) in 2:46/k. Sure, two different workouts with different rests (1 min jogging for Puffer vs 3 min standing for Young) but if one would burn out a runner if done repeatedly, which one do you think it would be?

Also Puffer isn't the only Tinman coached HS athlete that's doing very well right now. There is a whole bunch of them that can all run below 15 in the 5k and are still on low/moderate mileage without many superhero workouts. Tinman is literally revolutionizing HS development of athletes right now, just look at how the programs that are working with him as advisor and using his philosophies are doing right now (e.g. Loudon Valley).

I do have a strong belief that Tinman knows how to train young athletes incredibly well. Remaining injury free and developing them to succeed at higher levels seems to happen with all of his younger athletes.

I just observe most of the Tinman talk and do not have a dog in the fight, but if this was Mike Smith or another beloved coach we'd be worshipping the coach of someone who has the results Tom does at the HS level.

Talent and consistent hard work produce results. There are a million ways to train and there is no one size fits all. TInman's way works fine, Newbury Park's way works fine and 100's of other coach's ways work fine. The reason Tinman and Newbury Park are having the results they are is because they are both fortunate enough to have incredibly talented kids to work with. Tinman athletes come to him because they are good and looking for more than their high school can provide. Newbury Park has a group of kids that were very fast prior to coming to to high school. They will both also have kids that will burn out, just like every other program in the country will have kids that will burn out. Some kids just don't love it and the hard work is not worth the reward, no fault of the program they come from.

cramister wrote:

Yeah I know but I'm saying he never got the chance to rip that fast 5k, I think he would've taken Lindgren's record and maybe Rupp would never have got it.

and who is this now? he's actually 50th all time in the 5k for hs boys

Rupps 5k is a slightly better time that Chapa's 10k. But neither really ran another time close to those. They had had a good day and ran an off the chart time (see Webbs 3:53 for another example). I have no doubt Chappa could have run a 13:40-13:45 type race if things went well.

Talented runners are fast, improve on training/with hard work, and win races with good runs. Yes. Of course the top runners like Hunter, Puffer, Young, etc are all talented and will have a VO2MAX of ~80 when mature.

BUT there are many runners, who are also talented, but got into a HS with a coach who got no clue. Sadly, that's the majority of HS kids. Tinman once said, 10 or more runners could be like Hunter every year, but they fail to meet the right people, get the right training, have the right lifestyle/drive etc.

It's not like there is one 13:30 potential runner born each year, and they go to Newbury or Tinman. There are several runners with high potential born each year, but only those that go to the right place (often through coincidence) will develop their running to their potential. So while Tinman, the Newbury coach, or other successful coaches might not be doing anything special, they also are not doing anything stupid like extremely low mileage, or too many hard workouts, too much racing, killing in the gym, etc. with their athletes. And the sad truth is, many coaches, especially on HS level have a lot of leaks in their coaching and are totally overburdened by a highly talented runner and screw them up somehow.

Unless this kid starts beating Gavin Sherry, he's number 1 in the number 2 business.

Shows how LITTLE you (and Tinman) know.

Puffer has been breaking world records since he was 11 years old. As an 11 year old, he ran 17:02 in the 5k (world record for the age group). Well before he was coached by Tinman.

Also broke the age group 5k world record as a 12 year old and 13 year old.

As a freshman in high school, he ran 14:47 in the 5k (another age group world record) as a 14 year old.

This 14:25 as a junior already shows that he is hitting a plateau because it's FAR from the world record for his current age group.

ocracoke wrote:

In a 5k track race in NJ yesterday. 35th all-time according to Milesplit.

#3 Junior all time behind Alex Ostberg (14:16) and Galen Rupp (14:20).

If he runs a 5K in the spring he will likely take those two down a notch.

By the way he is only 16 and won't be 17 until next May.

Of course it is a very good time when a 16 years old runs 14:25.

But is not a top time internationally. As far as I can see it will put Aidan no. 16 on the 2020 U18 top list.

No. 3 and 4 on the list are Danes with 13:57 at 16 and 14:05 at 15 at the time. The 16 years old has also run the 1500m in 3:42.5 and the 10KM road in 30 (in the beginning of 2020).

The second Dane ran high 30 in 10000m last year at 14.

------------

Another poster on this thread has compared Aidan to Drew Hunter and Nico Young who are obviously also very good young runners but still sub-elite internationally. And Drew being 23 in newt years Olympic season has to prove that he is more than just talented.

NJ fan wrote:

Shows how LITTLE you (and Tinman) know.

Puffer has been breaking world records since he was 11 years old. As an 11 year old, he ran 17:02 in the 5k (world record for the age group). Well before he was coached by Tinman.

Also broke the age group 5k world record as a 12 year old and 13 year old.

As a freshman in high school, he ran 14:47 in the 5k (another age group world record) as a 14 year old.

This 14:25 as a junior already shows that he is hitting a plateau because it's FAR from the world record for his current age group.

+1

dadsfadsfdasfdsafdas wrote:

cramister wrote:

Yeah I know but I'm saying he never got the chance to rip that fast 5k, I think he would've taken Lindgren's record and maybe Rupp would never have got it.

and who is this now? he's actually 50th all time in the 5k for hs boys

Rupps 5k is a slightly better time that Chapa's 10k. But neither really ran another time close to those. They had had a good day and ran an off the chart time (see Webbs 3:53 for another example). I have no doubt Chappa could have run a 13:40-13:45 type race if things went well.

I'm not sure I'd say Rupp had a "good day and ran an off the chart time". He ran under 14 at least one other time before his record, maybe twice.

Chapa was certainly great, but his record appears much more like a one off performance.