Wang Junxia 3K WR 8:06

Seyta wrote:

Realistically speaking, NONE of the Chinese womens' records should have been broken.

The fact that the 1500m and 10000m records were bested should already set off alarm bells for everyone.

Realistically speaking this ranks as one of the DUMBEST STATEMENT ever posted around here.... you are probably too young to remember when and how they set those "records"....

And Reindeer milk

KAV wrote:

Seyta wrote:

Realistically speaking, NONE of the Chinese womens' records should have been broken.

The fact that the 1500m and 10000m records were bested should already set off alarm bells for everyone.

Realistically speaking this ranks as one of the DUMBEST STATEMENT ever posted around here.... you are probably too young to remember when and how they set those "records"....

But it's what people are conditioned to believe, that drugs improve performance. Changing the culture is the real requirement. Anti doping measures just reinforce the culture.

I am impressed with Letesenbet Gidey - but for a reason other than her 15k road record which had a significant downhill element contributing to the record time along with road-certified 40mm heel stack height shoes vs 25mm for track.

What impresses me is that she could open her 2020 outdoor track season with a 14:26.57/5k -- just off her 14:23.14 pr from 2018 -- then two months later whack 20 seconds off of that for a 14:06.62 WR.

Presuming she wore the same shoes for both races this year, what accounted for going from an historically really good time to a WR?

Taking the high road and presuming she has done everything by the book, 2 reasons come to mind: perfect training . . . and the Wavelight technology.

She ran a really good race at Monaco -- the 14:26 -- then went back to the drawing board with her coach and spent 8 weeks of training, putting all her eggs in one basket to target breaking 14:11 --

then did exactly that with the help of a WR-holder pacemaker and the Wavelight technology.

Wonder what Helen Obiri or Sifan Hassan -- or Shelby Houlihan, for that matter -- are thinking about all this? Obiri, especially ("sh!!", give me a Wavelight, I can beat that).

However, as was reasoned out in a previous post, 14:06 is nowhere near 13:53 which was projected to be the 5k equivalent of an 8:06/3k.

Pattie Sue Plumer was quoted in the Ma Junxia/Chinese linked article from a previous post that the Chinese records from 1993 "will last for 100 years." That was 27 years ago. We may have to revive this thread 73 years from now.

The 3000 was a championship event at the time.

Who knows what kind of 5000 time she would have put up if that was the championship event instead.

Good point regarding the 3k not having yet been replaced by the 5k at Worlds or Olympics.

Just read a recap of that 1993 meet. The 3k was last on the distance schedule. Wang Junxia had already run the 10k, two heats of the 1500 then a heat of the 3k. Her 8:06/3k final was her 5th race in 6 days.

http://crowndiamond.net/techpack/0447.pdf

Bobbyboot wrote:

Or go the other way compare 5k to 3K Men: 12:35 to 7:20 pace per k is .9713 of 5k pace. Both score 1303.

Women: 13:53.5 = 8:05.75 97.13% of 5k pace.

10K time of 29:17 is the same as 13:57 IAAF points for women. They are getting close. I think it will take a stronger runner with a WR 5K time and great 1500 speed but they would still have to be able tor run at least 3:52 in order to crack 8:06. I think it could happen in a few years.

On VDOT tables and 8:06 is the same as a 14:06. That matches my impression of watching 100s of runners over the years where people who run 8:00 flat for the 3000m are running 13:50 to 14:10 for 5000m. Percentage of WR and the like make the assumption that all record are equally hard. They aren't.

Now if Giddy has enough speed to get down there is another question. Her 4:11 1500m is useless (i.e. it is slower than her 3k pr pace) but yeah we are talking something like 3:54 speed for an endurance monster. Thats fast...

8

Bower Man wrote:

Good point regarding the 3k not having yet been replaced by the 5k at Worlds or Olympics.

Just read a recap of that 1993 meet. The 3k was last on the distance schedule. Wang Junxia had already run the 10k, two heats of the 1500 then a heat of the 3k. Her 8:06/3k final was her 5th race in 6 days.

http://crowndiamond.net/techpack/0447.pdf

They could have titled the article: "An orgy of doping"

Gidey ran WR 14:06 at 5000 and that is equal to 8:05 at 3000m. We will have a new world record soon.

Are there any videos or pictures of the races from the 1997 Chinese National Games? I don't think I've ever seen anything from that meet.

KAV wrote:

Seyta wrote:

Realistically speaking, NONE of the Chinese womens' records should have been broken.

The fact that the 1500m and 10000m records were bested should already set off alarm bells for everyone.

Realistically speaking this ranks as one of the DUMBEST STATEMENT ever posted around here.... you are probably too young to remember when and how they set those "records"....

Are you stupid? Your entire statement agrees with what I said. The Chinese records were doped to high-heaven. And not just your every day doping. Because this was the Chinese National Games, all doping controls and regulations were internal. They could effectively drug up without consequence. They should, again, NEVER have been broken.

The fact that they were fully incriminates those who did so (although Dibaba already has a bigger strike, which is her association with Aden)

Regardless of whose conversion/equivalent formula you wish to believe, what I am looking forward to in the years to come is the following:

Zurich's Weltklasse meet has always billed itself as the "one day Olympics" and traditionally has had the money to attract the top athletes to compete in its normal end-of August calendar slot.

So, if next year, 2022 and beyond return to "normal", I would like to see Weltklasse get the 1500m and 5k medalists from the recently completed Olympics/WCs to compete in all-out 3ks. Both men and women. Set the Wavelight to flash at, say, 7:25 for men and 5 for women, then hope the winners can kick to times that are close to the respective WRs.

A $1 million bonus for breaking the 3k WR would be a nice kicker and attract a ton of general sports media attention.

Meant to type 8:10 - 8:15 for women above.

When we see a guy run 7:25 and a woman run 8:10, then I'll believe the current WRs can be broken.

TAA wrote:

Are there any videos or pictures of the races from the 1997 Chinese National Games? I don't think I've ever seen anything from that meet.

I couldn't find much from that meet but I did find some other videos. They don't have that great quality unfortunately.

What fascinates me about these races is just how much of stark contrast there is between the running form of the Chinese runners compared to Gidey. Gidey runs so smooth with a long powerful stride while the Chinese runners look so stiff and motor with a crazy high cadence.

Doping works regardless or stride or form.