How did you get your threshold down to 5:00 pace?

Training Advice/Discussion

3 years ago 09/24/2020 5:37am EDT

I have been stuck doing tempos and cruise intervals in the 5:15-5:20-range at sea level, and it's not as easy as it ought to be (I wear a HR monitor to verify this). I ran 4:12 and 8:25 in the mile and 3k so surely I should be able to run these faster. I am only a 1:59 half-miler at the moment, so on paper my endurance/engine should be pretty good to run 4:12, right?

One of my long-term goals is to drop that threshold pace (of course I need to improve my speed too). Do I do mile repeats at 10k effort (5:00-5:05) and 1ks at 3k-5k pace (4:30-4:45)? Or do I keep grinding at it from the strength side (keep running 5:20s until it gets easier?) My mechanics feel so much different at sub-5 pace vs. 5:20-6:00 pace, which is why I think I need to get more efficient at the faster pace, but please, give me suggestions.

The other thing is I do my easy days at 8:00 pace. Would I benefit from trying to run 6:20s?

3 years ago 09/24/2020 7:31am EDT

re: Seppo Kaitenen

There will be no single answer on how to achieve this, but few things that you might consider are:

1) Doing your threshold as short reps. Same as some of Ingebrigtsens' threshold sessions where they do repeat 400m, you can probably do repeat 400m with short 30''-45'' rest at 5K pace and still keep your lactate under 4mmol or whatever your threshold value is. You might also split this into few blocks as well, instead of going 25x400m(40''), you could start from 5x5x400m (30''/2').

2) Doing some of your threshold sessions as hill repeats as it might work muscles slightly more.

3) Vary your threshold sessions overall, for example if you do 2 threshold sessions/week, you might have different sessions that you would rotate, ex. one week do 10x1K(1') and 6x5'(75'') , then another you would do 25x400m(40") and 12x3'(1') hills, etc.

4) Since you are taking your easy days easy, you might want to try doing double threshold days as Ingebrigtsens as well.

5)You could try doing higher volume of slightly lower quality workouts, by targeting more of marathon paced work (ie ~2.5mmol) and going for sessions like 10x2K or 20x1K, for base phase, you might as well look at some interval workouts that someone like Kipchoge does. No need for more specific long tempos, but similar interval work might be a good idea.

I think long term you will be right to be putting majority of your base work under anaerobic threshold, since that should be the way to have long term sustained improvement in your aerobic abilities. You probably read this already, but nice overview of Kale's training

https://drive.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=https://pajulahti.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/Jan-Bengtsson-Pajulahti.pdf

3 years ago 09/24/2020 1:37pm EDT

re: no easy answer

Thanks for the advice. I wish I had 48 speed

3 years ago 09/24/2020 1:46pm EDT

re: Seppo Kaitenen

I have nearly identical pr's as you and my tempos are around the same pace as yours, maybe a touch faster but not <5:00 pace. My easy runs are always sub 7 pace.

There are many ways to get faster, but your goal should be to run faster race paces, not training paces. If running 5:15s feels right for you, keep doing that. Training isn't a simple math formula where a certain input will give you a definite output - everyone has a different training history, body composition etc... and you need to take that into account.

If you want to increase endurance 5k-10k racing, do longer tempo runs, higher volume workouts at 5 and 10k pace and higher volume than what you were doing while training for the mile.

3 years ago 09/24/2020 6:26pm EDT

re: Seppo Kaitenen

Maybe you should sign up for the rojo/Kellogg training program

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