CMV: Distance runners overdo their cooldown runs

Just my .02 cents wrote:

d if you feel good enough to be running around for 20-30 minutes after a workout you probably didn't work out hard enough.

If you're regularly workout out so hard that you can't run slowly for 20 minutes after a workout you ran way too hard

After 40 years at HS and college level I have found a VERY short easy jog and walk immediately after a hard workout or race, followed by a walk or jog hours after seems to accelerate recovery best. Non elite athletes do just as well with a walk.

PrZ wrote:

I think a shorter 2 mile or so cooldown right after a race or a hard workout is a good move, but I also prefer and have seen personal success in going for an easy 3-4 mile shakeout run a few hours later. The cooldown right after might kind of suck since you've just pushed yourself but I've always found the shakeout a few hours later to be super beneficial, especially for the next day. Legs typically feel generally fresher the next day. It also definitely depends on what mileage you do, but the notion that a longer cooldown is generally a bad idea frankly comes off as lazy and ignorant.

Yeah i can agree with that. Same with what V said.

I’d also add that if you’re concerned about running with poor form after a workout, you should Probably be concerned with your form on daily runs too. Your body should not be so incredibly taxed that you can’t maintain decent enough form for 15-30 minutes one or twice a week that you get injured.

KAV wrote:

pavement88 wrote:

Cooldowns are often done with terribly sloppy form and I always feel this is a big injury risk.

Tired body + forced running with poor mechanics = high risk. After a race especially.

If you are cooling down with terrible form you are probably better off walking.

If you can't run slowly and maintain proper mechanics you need to run more miles slowly.

If you still struggle to cool down properly after workouts on a regular basis, you are probably over doing the workouts.

Personally, I find an easy run a few hours after a workout or a decent walk in the afternoon after a morning long run to be the best methods for keeping soreness away.

Are you seriously worried to get injured if you run a couple of miles super slow after an hard effort? Really?

That post was laughable. Racing your workout is what gets you injured not slow miles. Some elite athletes have bad form even at race pace, I wonder what Kitata and Desisa would think hearing this nonsense.

Just my .02 cents wrote:

This is probably a dumb and petty thing to care about, but I've always had the opinion that distance runners overdo it on their cooldown runs after workouts/races. Specifically when people treat a cooldown as an opportunity to "tack on more mileage" and not to actually relax the legs and help recovery. Seriously, how many miles does it take to actually cooldown? 1, MAYBE 2? It's definitely not the 3-4 miles that some runners do. I feel like that time running on tired legs would be better spent recovering, and if you feel good enough to be running around for 20-30 minutes after a workout you probably didn't work out hard enough. Those extra miles really aren't of good enough quality/quantity to be worth the extra damage done on the legs.

You are totally off on this one.

Primary goal of the cool-down is to remove hydrogen ions (acid) and metabolic byproducts from your muscles after racing. Acidosis which manifests as EPOC can only be reversed either by buffering acid directly with consumed bicarbonates or by exhaling the excess hydrogen ions via bicarbonate/carbonic acid equilibrium shifting left. The more anaerobic the racing was the more CO2 will be produced during racing and immediately after and the longer cool-down will be necessary to return the body to relative homeostasis.

Secondary goal of the cool-down is to return all systems to baseline. This means to lower BP, heart rate and return blood supply to gastrointestinal tract and periphery, lower body temperature etc. Again it's best achieved with longer slow cool-down or progressively slower cool-down if you will.

After hard 800, 1500, 3k and 5k I would suggest to do cool-downs of 20-30 minutes at low

The words you are throwing around are impressive, but your certainty about what's going on in the body makes me skeptical. Not limited to the suggestion to ingest bicarbonates to help with acid buffering in the muscles - I remember hearing that claim is not proven effective.

This pseudo-scientific explanation of the cool down has been debunked. Google it. OP is overly focused on the literal words "cool down." There's no need to cool the body down. It will cool down regardless. Many/most experienced runners will say they feel better after doing some cool down miles after a hard workout or race, but I suspect that's because they're used to it and/or it's a placebo effect. The only real reason to do a "cool down" is to get in more miles. And, yes, if you're so fried from the race or workout that you're staggering along trying to force some miles in, it's probably detrimental and, at very least, probably not beneficial in any meaningful way. But most experienced runners can handle running some miles after workouts or races at a fairly easy clip.

Cool downs simply add more aerobic miles. They should be done slow and easy. No they do not help you recover. At all. The only benefit is additional mileage. As it turns out, additional mileage is extremely important in distance running.

Does it actually cost you 0.02 cents to post? Why does everyone keep saying that? For me letsrun is free and I don't pay anything.

LOL, google yourself and read how energy is produced and how metabolism byproducts are buffered and excreted.

Muscles produce carbon dioxide (CO2) and hydrogen ions (H+) as a result of contraction but the energy production is a multi step process. The first step – glycolysis – happens in cell cytoplasm without presence of oxygen and results in pyruvic acid and H+ formation. Then the next steps of energy production moves to mitochondria – firstly pyruvic acid is oxidized which leaves us with spare H+ that makes cell environment acidic. To prevent acidosis NAD+ picks up H+ and is reduced to NADH by depositing H+ at the electron transport gate in mitochondria to be combined with oxygen (O2) to form water (H2O). But for this to happen sufficient O2 is needed.

When racing so called "anaerobic" events (like 800-5k and to some extent 10k) you accumulate H+ faster than they can be cleared up because because O2 that is needed for NADH to release H+ at the ET gate is insufficient due to the fact that aerobic system is already running on maximum rpm (max O2 uptake or VO2max reached). Since you need O2 to deposit H+ and O2 is insufficient, H+ is accepted by pyruvic acid to form lactic acid which then dissociates into lactate and H+. Some lactate diffuses in blood along with some H+ where it's buffered or picked up by hemoglobin up to it's capacity. This is needed to prevent muscle acidosis which would mean that muscle would not be able to perform it's function as enzymes are not able to do their work in acidic pH.

So recovery after hard workout or racing depends solely on the fact how fast you can remove and metabolize H+ from muscles. Without sufficient buffering capacity or active cool-down (which provides continuous supply of oxygen) the process of H+ removal from muscles will be slow and will take up to an hour or even more. During this time enzymes will be depleted. Bicarbonates is a way to increase buffering capacity. And so is active long cool-down that provides enough oxygen to deal with respiratory acidosis.

Just my .02 cents wrote:

This is probably a dumb and petty thing to care about, but I've always had the opinion that distance runners overdo it on their cooldown runs after workouts/races. Specifically when people treat a cooldown as an opportunity to "tack on more mileage" and not to actually relax the legs and help recovery. Seriously, how many miles does it take to actually cooldown? 1, MAYBE 2? It's definitely not the 3-4 miles that some runners do. I feel like that time running on tired legs would be better spent recovering, and if you feel good enough to be running around for 20-30 minutes after a workout you probably didn't work out hard enough. Those extra miles really aren't of good enough quality/quantity to be worth the extra damage done on the legs.

agreed

Dude, just stop. What you wrote was not the pseudo-science part, except where you seem to think that the cool down is necessary to provide "enough oxygen to deal with respiratory acidosis." That's ridiculous. Your body will remove any and all byproducts with or without a cool down. And in about the same amount of time.

Yep, shorten the cool down, and while we're on this topic, let's get rid of the warmup too! Have you ever seen a lion warmup before a hunt? In fact, let's just get rid of easy running all together! All this pesky 'mileage' is absolutely useless.

I’ve always treated the cool down as some time to slow down and reconnect with my body. Loosen the legs up a bit, feel out if anything is complaining.

A more intense workout might require a few strides thrown in and a bit more time, whereas a longer workout could be some easy jogging.

It’s more a matter of getting the body back into a baseline recovery state.

For younger runners you might need to throw in some extra miles to cook their legs off a bit before the next workout. Especially if they are slacking on their base miles and hitting the workouts too hard.

I never warm up or cool down. I just walk and do some knee raises.

Never been injured.