Wetmore & 26.2

You seem to infer from my statement that I feel the courses were "mismeasured." I don't. I think they were intentionally short.

So, no, it's not just as likely that they would be long.

Is Boston longer than it was years ago?

I believe many have the idea that running the marathon is the end of the road & that they will jeopardize their future by running one too soon. They are gun-shy.

Salazar,Virgin,Shorter,Rodgers,Bjorkland all ran great 10ks on the track and were marathoners as well.

2 27:39.4 Craig Virgin USA Walnut 1979-06-17

27:39.27 Alan Culpepper USA 15.09.72 2 Palo Alto

167 27:29.16 Craig Virgin USA 02.08.55 1 Paris 17.07.1980

Maybe Culpepper can do the same.

I ran my first at age 21 in 1977 and prd for 5k (13:54)& 10k (28:24) in 1984 after my 12th competitive marathon.

OK. I guess you should know.

"But ask yourself this: Do you really think two people with relatively similar marathon PRs, like Bob Hodge and Todd Williams, are equal marathoners?"

I think Hodge is more of a pure marathoner. Williams, in my opinion, started late, didn't run enough of them (or give it enough time), and under-achieved in the long race (relative to his other accomplishments).

Sorry, I am not buying the short course theory. I think we'd have heard a few "confessions". Are you coming forward with something? If so, let's hear it all.

Also, even if Boston finishes a few blocks down the road, there are ways this can happen (roads could have been widened, shortening turns). This is a more creative excuse than the norm, though.

Hodgie-san wrote:

I believe many have the idea that running the marathon is the end of the road & that they will jeopardize their future by running one too soon. They are gun-shy.

I have argued this forever and ever, and I have never been convinced otherwise. It's not just that people think the marathon is the end of the road (to be pursued at the end of a career), but that most people think it will ruin their performances at shorter distances (which you may have addressed with your PR list)--5k, 10k, etc.

The course changed finish lines and moved down the street to finish close to the Hanncock tower, when Hanncock signed on as a sponsor @ $10 million/10 years.

86 was the first prize money year.

A DULL START FOR BAA'S NEW FINISH

Author: By Neil Singelais, Globe Staff

Date: 04/03/1986 Page: 35

Section: SPORTS

They held a news conference yesterday to announce where the Boston Marathon's new finish line will be located April 21. The details were as exciting as watching paint dry.

In fact, the media gathered at the Copley Plaza Hotel did get to watch paint dry when Francis L. Swift, president of the Boston Athletic Association, and William Bogan, executive vice president of John Hancock, stepped onto Boylston Street and began painting a high yellow line between the old and new

sections of the Boston Public Library on Boylston Street, where the Marathon finish line will be located.

The runners will finish in the shadow of the John Hancock Tower, the headquarters for the Marathon's new corporate sponsor. In order to move the finish line about 300 yards down Boylston Street from its previous location at Prudential Center, the race's starting line in Hopkinton was moved up about 35 yards and an additional 285 yards were gained by closing a loop at Route 135 in Ashland.

The Athletics Congress certified the altered Boston Marathon course in March after it was remeasured and approved by three TAC officials -- John McGrath, David Catz and Gabriel Duguay.

BAA officials Len Luchner and Guy Morse said the changes in the course are so minor, there is no need to declare it a new course for the establishing records.

Morse noted that the race will conclude with a 600-yard straightaway from Hereford Street to the tape "and will be especially advantageous from a spectator's standpoint if there's a close finish." He said that as the runners complete the race, they will be guided through timing chutes where they will be given medals, blankets, water and food. Runners requiring medical attention will be taken to a Copley Square medical tent.

Against a backdrop of Marathon charts and sketches, David D'Alessandro, Hancock senior vice president of corporate communications, spoke in glowing terms about how the new finish area will assume a festive atmosphere with giant balloons and a DiamondVision screen on Dartmouth Street.

"We'll have a grandstand seating area along Boylston Street that will hold about 1,400 people, and bleachers in front of a DiamondVision screen will seat another 450," D'Alessandro said. "They will be occupied by invited guests

from Greater Boston communities. We estimate that during the race, Copley Square will be filled with some 6,000 spectators, race officials, volunteers and media people. There will be only standing room for the public."

Paul Barrett, Mayor Flynn's consultant on Marathon matters, said that the Copley Square area will be secure, "and that for the first time, the Marathon will finish on public property."

D'Alessandro also said that in order for Hancock to provide the US Olympic Committee with the liability insurance it needs in return for the committee's designation of the Boston Marathon as a 1988 Olympic Trial, the Marathon must continue to be held as a single race only on a Monday.

As a climax to the news conference, Flynn was supposed to make a surprise appearance for the benefit of photographers and cross the finish line painted by Swift and Bogan.

Flynn did surprise everyone. He failed to show up. Which only goes to show that His Honor meant it when he said he intends to lower his media profile.

SINGEL;04/02,14:08 NKELLY;04/03,15:54 BAA03

Elliot Lounge wrote:

The reason there were so many sub-2:20 marathoners back then is simple: short courses.

The courses today probably average 800-1000m longer than the courses of the 1970s and 1980s. No fudge-factor then. No rules on measuring one meter from the curb.

Somehow the BAA starting line has remained fixed but the finish line is now some 5 blocks further down Boylston Street.

Couldn't tell you about those babies. But I can tell you that Grandma's is and always was legit. There was a big propaganda stir from the Rodgers camp (Bill was starting to decline and brother Charlie was quick to keep Bill's drawing power/appearance fees from being compromised by a newcomer) after Beardsley ran his fast time 2:09:37 there in 1981 under perfect conditions (tail wind, perhaps, but not short!). The race had their course measured again, to help Beardsley's future appearance fees and their own race creditability, and it was found to be slightly long (30m.?).

Bjorklund ran 2:10:20 the year before, same start and finish line (No one out East complained...but then Rodgers had beaten Bjorklund before and Bill's people could point to that when negotiating). Almost perfect conditions--cloudy and overcast all the way--but no tailwind. (Some of us oldsters actually give more clout to Bjorklund's time than Beardsley's.)

Bjorklund was taking out his boycott mad on the course after leaving his growing businesses for six months to train in Boulder for the 1980 Trials and Games. He ended up with a time only a few tenths slower than Sandoval and Jeff Welles ran (2:10:19) while intentionally tying in the Nike/Oregon Track Club race that year. Rounded up, Bjorklund's time turned out to be third-best American that year, if memory serves.

Grandma's was the real thing back then. When runners turned pro and money came more from races than sponsor perks for times (which could be run anywhere), Grandma's--a non-profit group--couldn't compete, and became a second level race as far as stars putting in an appearance.

OOPS... looks like ELounge is going to have fish for another mismeasured race.

Easiest example: Todd Williams

The guy could have ran 2:10 when he was finishing in the top 10 at the Oly 10k. There has been too much focus on waiting, too little focus on training. Good news: Teams like Hansons give people a reason to focus on road events and the marathon. Would Verran and company be running the times they are running or running the distances they are running w/o Hansons? Doubtful. It's simply a matter of young people getting motivated to train for and run a marathon. It may take a few years of training for and racing marathons before you finally "get it". By waiting too long you simply run out of time. Hence the reason BK never got the 10k AR and hence the reason Geb hasn't and probably will not get the marathon WR. Don't listen to your agents. Listen to your heart.

Alan

Actually I bet more agents push for guys to move into the marathon with the bigger paydays. The athletes themselves are afraid to 1) Hurt their short distances. Todd Williams was easily the nuber one 10k guy and he probably didn't want to risk that and hurt is yearly bonus.

2) Marathon training and the reluctance to jeopordize numerous payday racing opportunities for one big payday.

Everyone used to point at Salazar as ruining his career by age 25 because of marathoning but looking back he accomplished more in a few short years than any American since. Worldwide fear and respect for at least one year.