ingebrigtsen training schedule - please don't be vague

My understanding of the schedule is this:

Monday - Double Easy Runs, 8-12K distance per run

Tuesday - Double Threshold

Wednesday - Same as Monday

Thursday - Double Threshold

Friday - Same as Monday

Saturday - Hills year-round, replaced by 10x 300m @ 1500m Pace during the track season

Sunday - Easy Long Run, 20-25K

Double threshold sessions are normally broken into 1:00, 3:00, or 9:00 intervals I think? Longer one in the morning.

I.E. 10x 3:00 or 10x 1K in the morning

20x 1:00 or 20x 400m in the evening

Lot of times at least one of the threshold sessions are on a treadmill.

Kalle Berglund was accused by the ingebrigtsens of stealing their training. (He was just given it from the same sports scientist they use for their lactate tests)

SMNRunner wrote:

My understanding of the schedule is this:

Monday - Double Easy Runs, 8-12K distance per run

Tuesday - Double Threshold

Wednesday - Same as Monday

Thursday - Double Threshold

Friday - Same as Monday

Saturday - Hills year-round, replaced by 10x 300m @ 1500m Pace during the track season

Sunday - Easy Long Run, 20-25K

Double threshold sessions are normally broken into 1:00, 3:00, or 9:00 intervals I think? Longer one in the morning.

I.E. 10x 3:00 or 10x 1K in the morning

20x 1:00 or 20x 400m in the evening

Lot of times at least one of the threshold sessions are on a treadmill.

They also do sprints and mobility exercises on Tuesdays, weights on wednesdays.

This is however BASE phase, this is not year-round. They do more specific training when they approach competition season.

GrapeSon wrote:

SMNRunner wrote:

My understanding of the schedule is this:

Monday - Double Easy Runs, 8-12K distance per run

Tuesday - Double Threshold

Wednesday - Same as Monday

Thursday - Double Threshold

Friday - Same as Monday

Saturday - Hills year-round, replaced by 10x 300m @ 1500m Pace during the track season

Sunday - Easy Long Run, 20-25K

Double threshold sessions are normally broken into 1:00, 3:00, or 9:00 intervals I think? Longer one in the morning.

I.E. 10x 3:00 or 10x 1K in the morning

20x 1:00 or 20x 400m in the evening

Lot of times at least one of the threshold sessions are on a treadmill.

They also do sprints and mobility exercises on Tuesdays, weights on wednesdays.

This is however BASE phase, this is not year-round. They do more specific training when they approach competition season.

I meant to say sprints on mondays.

I was actually going to start a thread about this. After Jakob’s performances it’s clear to see what they’re doing can work well, Henrik and Filip have posted great times as well but seem to have injury problems.

There was a link to a presentation Gjert have, it’s in Norwegian but most of it is easily google translate-able, When I find it I’ll link it in here.

My understanding is that they do double threshold twice a week+one speed session that transitions into specific race prep during the diamond league season.

During their “base phase” it seems that each individual session tries to reach 30 minutes at LT. I’m not 100% on these workouts as they are from other posters, but basically stuff like 30x1:00 (0:30 rest) 10x3:00 (1:00) 5x6:00 (1:30-2:00) 3x10:00 (3:00).

The afternoon sessions are similar, except with measured intervals. Things like 10x1k, 5x2k 3x3k. Essentially the same workout, but one is on time and the other on distance.

They also don’t do a traditional long run. I think it’s something like 10 miles or so a week.

Just read through the Kalle Berglund presentation. One thing I noticed is the lactate level differences in the morning and afternoon workouts. I believe 2.5 mmol is closer to marathon pace and 3.5 mmol is the traditional threshold we are used to, so these sessions vary the paces a little more than one might think

even with similar lactate level, the pace can vary depending of the lengh of the rep and the duration of the recovery

GrapeSon, thanks for the additional clarification. I did know they incorporated a lot of the plyometric, strength, and drills into their training based on their reality TV show on Youtube. I also had seen some of their more specific track sessions, but was more outline their off-season workouts since those are what garner most the attention or "magic" I feel.

So here's my question that I would pose to anyone in the thread: how does a coach who is working with somewhat experienced athletes, but not elite (say, US College level runners, but not D1 caliber) incorporate this type of training safely and effectively? It does not seem prudent to jump into sessions like 3x3K + 25x400m in the same day for athletes who have been trained in the US high school system and likely have 4 or less years of serious training under their belts.

Would a beginners approach to this training start with something like 4x Mile in the morning and finish with 12x 400m in the afternoon? Would you start with less than that or more?

I wouldn’t even attempt to regularly schedule sessions like this under normal circumstances. The runner would have to accumulated years and years of consistent moderate mileage before it would make any sense to do such a high threshold volume.

I know Mike Smith at NAU is doing some double threshold sessions, maybe he has talked to the Ingebrigstens while they have an altitude stay at flagstaff.

Let’s say for your competitive but not super star college runner can run 3:42 for 1500 or 4 flat mile. Their threshold is around 4:50-5:00 per mile depending on how aerobically trained they are. A common session would be 4 miles at LT in 20 minutes. But we know we can increase the volume of threshold splitting it up and getting even more benefit. Maybe 6x mile in 4:50-5:00. A double threshold session would basically add on another 5-6 miles at roughly 5 minute pace give or take a handful of seconds. Unless you can handle high mileage, around 100 I would say, there’s no reason to be doing 10-12 miles of threshold in one day if you’re “only” a 4 minute miler.

These workouts are for when you really need a LARGE amount of stimulus in a relatively short amount of time.

Look at what Canova does in his special blocks. Basically every 3 weeks he has a two a day workout, but is not threshold specific. It’s literally two different workouts in one day. I think that ideology is more applicable for the talented, mid level athlete. Even then, I wouldn’t regularly include these in a schedule. More as icing on the cake.

Interestingly enough, NAZ Elite has staple workouts that are usually bigger than the combined LT sessions listed above as singles.

They are not doing them 2x per week, but it can be done.

I think you have to determine how speedy your athlete is. I think the reason Fillip and Henrik are more injury prone is they have more speed than Jakob. Athletes can usually handle more threshold/tempo work if they have less speed, but athletes that are more fast twitch, need a balance that leans more on the fast stuff. This type of training has to be very individualized, or else you'll burn the athlete out. The way I use this to coach a friend (we wanted to test on him the training), we determine how much mileage we think he should be able to run a week (what we've found works is ((1440/date 5k)/Marathon Pace)/.25, but you'd have to test this with your athlete) and then we adjust his workouts based off his fitness compared to the Ingebrigtsens. So if they're in 4 minute shape in base phase and do 5x6 min in the morning, and my friend is in 4:30 shape in base, he should only do 4.5 reps at his morning pace, but then in the afternoon instead of 10x1000, he should probably do 8 - 9x800 because his LT pace is slower, so his 800 reps take the same time the Ingebrigtsens 1000 reps take. I can go into more detail, but this is how we think while testing it with my friend.

porcupinePhillip wrote:

Interestingly enough, NAZ Elite has staple workouts that are usually bigger than the combined LT sessions listed above as singles.

They are not doing them 2x per week, but it can be done.

So not the same at all.

I am not sure you are correct on this. Just because someone is more fast twitch does not mean that they are more injury prone. Kalle Berglund has better raw speed for 400 and 800 then any of the Ingebretsen's. Also Henrik is more of a 1500m/5k specialist. Most injuries come from not doing as well in your recovery (sleep/nutrition), how quickly you progress your training, and your running form. Not your muscle fiber type.

SMNRunner wrote:

Would a beginners approach to this training start with something like 4x Mile in the morning and finish with 12x 400m in the afternoon? Would you start with less than that or more?

I would take my normal tempo session volume and break it into 2 parts. Then over 8-12 weeks I would up the volume by 50-75% and see how I adapt.

So lets say I have been doing a 30 min run. Switch to

a) 3x1 mile in the morning @MP

b) 8x400 in the evening @HMP

Slowly build to something like

5x1 mile @MP

16x400 @HMP

.And I would also think about only doing this one day/week for a while. And you really need to be a decently high mileage runner. And have a lot of time and the ability to take it easy between workouts.

If you want to incorporate the double threshold sessions, with HS or college athletes: Monitor the sessions until the runners internalize the paces and their associated effort levels, because you will get injured if you’re young and try to push through the intervals.

Also: don’t do them by distance, do them by time, so 5x6 minutes AM, and 8x3min PM.

In an ideal world, you’d use a lactate meter between reps, but assuming that’s not available: AM/long interval session is slower than PM - by how much will vary with the ability of the athlete, but: someone running 2k in 6 min for the AM, would run 1k in 2:50-ish for the PM.

The significant thing about the double threshold sessions is that they’re targeting a maximum allowable lactate level at the end of a repeat while it doesn’t translate too well, Marius Bakken, from whom some of this originated: you should never have acid in your legs. “Syre i beina” is a Norwegian means of saying significant and/or felt onset of lactate.

Note that the Ingebrigtsen base phase is supremely frustrating to a runner. The double threshold days feel much too easy, and you do them every Tuesday and Thursday.

The payoff is long-term, because you can do a long, uninterrupted base phase on comparatively high mileage without injury. Forget keeping in top shape for an indoor season, or to abuse your athletes for NCAA athletics. This approach is there to develop athletes beyond college.

SMNRunner wrote:

My understanding of the schedule is this:

Monday - Double Easy Runs, 8-12K distance per run

Tuesday - Double Threshold

Wednesday - Same as Monday

Thursday - Double Threshold

Friday - Same as Monday

Saturday - Hills year-round, replaced by 10x 300m @ 1500m Pace during the track season

Sunday - Easy Long Run, 20-25K

Double threshold sessions are normally broken into 1:00, 3:00, or 9:00 intervals I think? Longer one in the morning.

I.E. 10x 3:00 or 10x 1K in the morning

20x 1:00 or 20x 400m in the evening

Lot of times at least one of the threshold sessions are on a treadmill.

So uh basically Tinman...

Basically Tinman wrote:

So uh basically Tinman...

No. The overall distance covered in the Ingebrigtsen training is higher (160 - 180 km/week), and the paces on the workout days are much more controlled, and determined by lactate measurements (even during the workout - they will prick between repeats)

Purrwegian wrote:

The payoff is long-term, because you can do a long, uninterrupted base phase on comparatively high mileage without injury. Forget keeping in top shape for an indoor season, or to abuse your athletes for NCAA athletics. This approach is there to develop athletes beyond college.

So we didn't see a teenage Jakob Ingebrigsten racing indoors? :) Coach much not care about developing him after college....

Seriously compare his track schedule to that of a US 1500m runner. The US guys runs a bit more early (i.e. feb/march) but they also stop racing a couple months early. We are talking about small differences. It isn't like throwing in an occasional 8k XC race in the fall is going to ruin your base or anything. We are looking at a base that keeps you very close to race shape all year round with only the need for a half dozen weeks of specialized training to hit a peak. We aren't talking some lydiard base here where the fast stuff is some 10 mile runs and maybe some strides....

Basically Tinman wrote:

SMNRunner wrote:

My understanding of the schedule is this:

Monday - Double Easy Runs, 8-12K distance per run

Tuesday - Double Threshold

Wednesday - Same as Monday

Thursday - Double Threshold

Friday - Same as Monday

Saturday - Hills year-round, replaced by 10x 300m @ 1500m Pace during the track season

Sunday - Easy Long Run, 20-25K

Double threshold sessions are normally broken into 1:00, 3:00, or 9:00 intervals I think? Longer one in the morning.

I.E. 10x 3:00 or 10x 1K in the morning

20x 1:00 or 20x 400m in the evening

Lot of times at least one of the threshold sessions are on a treadmill.

So uh basically Tinman...

Yes. 2 double threshold workouts per week and isolated hill workouts. Classic Tinman